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Why Tesla's Autopilot can't see a stopped firetruck

Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:12 am
Posted by RedRifle
Austin/NO
Member since Dec 2013
8335 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:12 am



LINK

quote:

A Tesla Model S slammed into the back of a stopped firetruck on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles County. The driver apparently told the fire department the car was in Autopilot mode at the time. The crash highlighted the shortcomings of the increasingly common semi-autonomous systems that let cars drive themselves in limited conditions. This surprisingly non-deadly debacle also raises a technical question: How is it possible that one of the most advanced driving systems on the planet doesn't see a freaking fire truck, dead ahead? Tesla didn't confirm the car was running Autopilot at the time of the crash, but its manual does warn that the system is ill-equipped to handle this exact sort of situation: “Traffic-Aware Cruise Control cannot detect all objects and may not brake/decelerate for stationary vehicles, especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph (80 km/h) and a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary vehicle or object is in front of you instead.”

quote:

Volvo's semi-autonomous system, Pilot Assist, has the same shortcoming. Say the car in front of the Volvo changes lanes or turns off the road, leaving nothing between the Volvo and a stopped car. "Pilot Assist will ignore the stationary vehicle and instead accelerate to the stored speed," Volvo's manual reads, meaning the cruise speed the driver punched in. "The driver must then intervene and apply the brakes.” In other words, your Volvo won't brake to avoid hitting a stopped car that suddenly appears up ahead. It might even accelerate towards it. The same is true for any car currently equipped with adaptive cruise control, or automated emergency braking. It sounds like a glaring flaw, the kind of horrible mistake engineers race to eliminate. Nope. These systems are designed to ignore static obstacles because otherwise, they couldn't work at all. “You always have to make a balance between braking when it’s not really needed, and not braking when it is needed,” says Erik Coelingh, head of new technologies at Zenuity, a partnership between Volvo and Autoliv formed to develop driver assistance technologies and self-driving cars. He's talking about false positives. On the highway, slamming the brakes for no reason can be as dangerous as not stopping when you need to. “The only safe scenario would be don’t move,” says Aaron Ames, from Caltech’s Center for Autonomous Systems and Technologies. That doesn't exactly work for driving. “You have to make reasonable assumptions about what you care about and what you don’t.”

quote:

“The radars they use are apparently meant for detecting moving objects (as typically used in adaptive cruise control systems), and seem to be not very good in detecting stationary objects," he says. That's not nearly as crazy as it may seem. Radar knows the speed of any object it sees, and is also simple, cheap, robust, and easy to build into a front bumper. But it also detects lots of things a car rolling down the highway needn't worry about, like overhead highway signs, loose hubcaps, or speed limit signs. So engineers make a choice, telling the car to ignore these things and keep its eyes on the other cars on the road: They program the system to focus on the stuff that's moving. This unsettling compromise may be better than nothing, given evidence that these systems prevent other kinds of crashes and save lives.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:13 am to
Because they need more government money for that.
Posted by Yellerhammer5
Member since Oct 2012
11051 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:14 am to
The car can’t make moral decisions such as not slamming into the back of a firetruck.
Posted by Hester Carries
Member since Sep 2012
25939 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:15 am to
Is this the thread where everyone is going to hiss and jeer and chastise innovation?
Posted by TH03
Mogadishu
Member since Dec 2008
172004 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:15 am to
Yeah wait til CAD wakes up from his mid morning nap and changes his diaper.
Posted by Evil Little Thing
Member since Jul 2013
11638 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:18 am to
To be fair, average drivers do this all the time, too.
Posted by KG6
Member since Aug 2009
10920 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:19 am to
quote:

Is this the thread where everyone is going to hiss and jeer and chastise innovation?


No, this is where some people realize we can barely make anything that doesn't have a glitch in it. So let's not quite jump to the point of thinking cars will be driving themselves by 2020.
Posted by Janky
Team Primo
Member since Jun 2011
35957 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:20 am to
It's obvious the car was texting.
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
94725 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:20 am to
quote:

Yeah wait til CAD wakes up from his mid morning nap and changes his diaper.



robot cars are the besszt!! human drivers SUCK!

the teslas are built by GOD MUSK HIMSELF and they have lidar and radar and poo-poo-dar and are infallible and would never run into another vehicle unless ITS THE OTHER VEHICLE'S FAULT!
This post was edited on 3/28/18 at 9:22 am
Posted by slackster
Houston
Member since Mar 2009
91874 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:21 am to
Do programs like Waymo have the same limitations?
Posted by Jon Ham
Member since Jun 2011
29735 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:21 am to
When people purchase these cars with the autopilot feature, are they required to take a class on how to use it and its dangers, or are they given a pamphlet and are expected to read through it themselves?

Without being told otherwise, I think it would be reasonable to assume your car is not going to run into the back of a parked car ahead of you when on autopilot.
Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
94725 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:22 am to
quote:

When people purchase these cars with the autopilot feature, are they required to take a class on how to use it and its dangers, or are they given a pamphlet and are expected to read through it themselves?


its the USERS' FAULT!
This post was edited on 3/28/18 at 9:23 am
Posted by PoppaD
Texas
Member since Feb 2008
5376 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:23 am to
My Subaru uses a camera system instead of Radar. I’ve never noticed it having trouble, but I’m also not retarded enough to fully rely on the system. The systems designed today are designed to merely help the driver not replace the driver.

Posted by CAD703X
Liberty Island
Member since Jul 2008
94725 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:24 am to
quote:

The systems designed today are designed to merely help the driver not replace the driver.


ding ding ding

this is the tipping point, friends.

driver ASSISTED technology vs FAKE GOD OF ROBOT CARS that encourage drivers to take a nap in the backseat and leave the driving to HAL
Posted by Ross
Member since Oct 2007
47827 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:26 am to
You need to slow down on the shift key usage, friend.
Posted by RedRifle
Austin/NO
Member since Dec 2013
8335 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:27 am to
quote:

Do programs like Waymo have the same limitations?


We don't know yet, however...




quote:

Jaguar to supply 20,000 cars to Google's self-driving spin-off Waymo Deal, worth up to £1.3bn, shows Waymo’s ambition in developing driverless ride-hailing service
Posted by Sao
East Texas Piney Woods
Member since Jun 2009
68469 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:28 am to

Pretty obvious, really. The car is black. It's kneeling for the flag.
Posted by MikeBRLA
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2005
17243 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:29 am to
quote:

No, this is where some people realize we can barely make anything that doesn't have a glitch in it. So let's not quite jump to the point of thinking cars will be driving themselves by 2020.


Bingo.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112944 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:30 am to
quote:

To be fair, average drivers do this all the time, too.

1. This


2. The technology is still in its infancy, it will get better and better as the years go by.
This post was edited on 3/28/18 at 9:31 am
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112944 posts
Posted on 3/28/18 at 9:31 am to
quote:

No, this is where some people realize we can barely make anything that doesn't have a glitch in it. So let's not quite jump to the point of thinking cars will be driving themselves by 2020.

Strawman gonna strawman
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