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Message
re: Why hasn’t most of Africa developed more than it has?
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:08 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:08 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
You might want to look into how easy it was for them.
It took some elbow grease but just about the entire continent was colonized by relatively small European countries. Even little Belgium, a country about the size of New Jersey.
0
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:13 pm to fr33manator
quote:This is MASSIVE part of it. Collectivism stymies all development in virtually all areas whether it be science, politics, technological advancements or even the arts. Individualism breeds competition and development in all areas that improve the lives of the entire society. Africa is the most collectivist culture in the world, followed by the asians. America is the most individualistic in the world, followed by the Europeans.
Very collective, to a fault.
Guns germs and steel theory probably plays a big role in development but individualism vs collectivism plays a huge part as well.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:14 pm to DavidTheGnome
Killing all your farmers tends to keep society down.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:18 pm to biglego
quote:
Why was Africa so poorly developed that Europeans could so easily colonize it in the first place?
The sword has always evolved to beat the shield and visa versa. Sub-Saharan Africa never developed past spears and wooden shields. They were stuck in the past when the world had moved on, probably because they didn’t need to. They subsisted at the carrying capacity of their environment.
Europeans and others came in with a VAST tech gap and were able to conquer the natives relatively easily. They brought new tech (guns, the wheel, even just basic advancements) and overwhelmed, colonized and pioneered this new land.
When they left, some of the tech remained but not the innate understanding, know how and skills to maintain and improve it.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:20 pm to fr33manator
I blame this all on the eradication of nipsy hustle...
This post was edited on 7/30/19 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:28 pm to DavidTheGnome
King Leopold's Ghost has your answer
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:28 pm to fr33manator
quote:And whitey made them eat each other too. frickin whitey and his European cannibalism.
When they left, some of the tech remained but not the innate understanding, know how and skills to maintain and improve it.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:31 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Guns germs and steel theory probably plays a big role in development but individualism vs collectivism plays a huge part as well.
I read an article years ago that really helped me understand. I’m fervently trying to find it.
Basically a westerner went there to observe.
There was a farm, run by westerners. It had modern tech, thrived, bumper crops. It was all set up and the natives had been trained and educated and shown how to farm.
Then the westerners left and the farm was given to an African to control, we’ll call him
Ngombe. The problems arose immediately. Seeing his newfound wealth, all of Ngombe’s family and friends asked for this and that. Food, money, etc. and the culture is such that it would be taboo to refuse.
He tried to get them to work and help him but they wouldn’t show up, if they did they weren’t very helpful, etc. they’d get their pay and immediately leave and not come back until they had spent it all, so the workforce wasn’t reliable.
They would take parts that were needed and use them for other things or sell them, and when the equipment broke they didn’t know how to fix it.
In short order the farm had gone fallow and the tools didn’t work, and Ngombe was as poor as he had been before.
The author really told it better. I’ll have to find it
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:39 pm to fr33manator
quote:There is a bar that me and my buddies frequent in west africa. Being Americans we were pretty generous with our tips. The bar owner eventually pulled aside one night and begged us not to tip her staff anymore. She said that the bar staff made enough money off of tips in a night or two to maintain their current lifestyle so once they had their monthly financial needs met they just quit showing up for work. So instead of the workers realizing “Hey, I’ve got this sweet gig where dumbass Americans just give me more money than I’ve ever made simply for handing a beer over the bar” and coming back to work to make even more money to improve their quality of life or financial situation, they simply didn’t show up to work until they ran out of money.
He tried to get them to work and help him but they wouldn’t show up, if they did they weren’t very helpful, etc. they’d get their pay and immediately leave and not come back until they had spent it all, so the workforce wasn’t reliable.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:45 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
It’s a childlike grasp of delayed gratification.
I wrote this piece the other night thinking about this sort of subject
The Urchin and the Orchard
A young street urchin, an orphan bastard of no consequence, happened upon a rich man who had been thrown from his horse on the side of the road.
He used his rags to bandage the man’s head, and set off to find his horse. Upon returning it, the rich man gave him a piece of gold in gratitude.
The orphan boy turned the piece of gold over and over in his fingers. He could buy himself a new pair of shoes and a fancy new coat with this gold. He could throw a feast for all his friends, puddings and pies and roasts for all. He could purchase many pleasures with this bit of newfound wealth, more than he had ever had in his hands.
But instead he bought a bushel of apples. Red and succulent and satisfying to the eye, juicy and sweet. Yet he ate not a one. Instead he cut them into pieces, keeping the seeds, and sold them to passersby for a pittance each, eating only the few slices that were left at the end of the day.
Using some of the money he had made from the apples, he bought a small trowel and a bucket, and set off with his seeds to a barren field he knew of with a little spring. And that night, under the light of the lidless eye of the moon, he dug holes and planted the seeds, going back and forth with his bucket to the spring and watering each seed.
The next day he used what was left of his profits from the apples to buy another bushel, and the same way, he sold them piece by piece. Eating only what was leftover. His feet ached from his worn shoes and his belly Panged with hunger, but he saved his profits, burying them in a hole. And each night he returned to the barren field and watered the seeds.
After many weeks of this he went to the land baron and with his sack of coins, asked to buy the little plot of barren field. As it served little use, the baron accepted his payment, and the boy, now growing into a man, built a little ramshackle house there.
Years passed by and the seedlings sprouted into trees, not yet fruiting, but growing. He found a girl and they wed, watering the trees together as he planted his own seed, and children soon played among the saplings, in that field that was now a little less barren. And they kept watering, kept fertilizing the growing things, selling their slices of apples. And planting the seeds in the fields adjacent.
The boy was now an old man, and the barren field had grown into an orchard. Now his son did not have to buy apples, but pick them from the trees. And when he died he was buried next to that little spring. And the orchard grew. His great great grandchildren played beneath verdant leaves and shiny red apples.
Now some were made into cider. Others sold by the truckload. And they all started with a seed.
I wrote this piece the other night thinking about this sort of subject
The Urchin and the Orchard
A young street urchin, an orphan bastard of no consequence, happened upon a rich man who had been thrown from his horse on the side of the road.
He used his rags to bandage the man’s head, and set off to find his horse. Upon returning it, the rich man gave him a piece of gold in gratitude.
The orphan boy turned the piece of gold over and over in his fingers. He could buy himself a new pair of shoes and a fancy new coat with this gold. He could throw a feast for all his friends, puddings and pies and roasts for all. He could purchase many pleasures with this bit of newfound wealth, more than he had ever had in his hands.
But instead he bought a bushel of apples. Red and succulent and satisfying to the eye, juicy and sweet. Yet he ate not a one. Instead he cut them into pieces, keeping the seeds, and sold them to passersby for a pittance each, eating only the few slices that were left at the end of the day.
Using some of the money he had made from the apples, he bought a small trowel and a bucket, and set off with his seeds to a barren field he knew of with a little spring. And that night, under the light of the lidless eye of the moon, he dug holes and planted the seeds, going back and forth with his bucket to the spring and watering each seed.
The next day he used what was left of his profits from the apples to buy another bushel, and the same way, he sold them piece by piece. Eating only what was leftover. His feet ached from his worn shoes and his belly Panged with hunger, but he saved his profits, burying them in a hole. And each night he returned to the barren field and watered the seeds.
After many weeks of this he went to the land baron and with his sack of coins, asked to buy the little plot of barren field. As it served little use, the baron accepted his payment, and the boy, now growing into a man, built a little ramshackle house there.
Years passed by and the seedlings sprouted into trees, not yet fruiting, but growing. He found a girl and they wed, watering the trees together as he planted his own seed, and children soon played among the saplings, in that field that was now a little less barren. And they kept watering, kept fertilizing the growing things, selling their slices of apples. And planting the seeds in the fields adjacent.
The boy was now an old man, and the barren field had grown into an orchard. Now his son did not have to buy apples, but pick them from the trees. And when he died he was buried next to that little spring. And the orchard grew. His great great grandchildren played beneath verdant leaves and shiny red apples.
Now some were made into cider. Others sold by the truckload. And they all started with a seed.
Posted on 7/30/19 at 11:51 pm to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
She said that the bar staff made enough money off of tips in a night or two to maintain their current lifestyle so once they had their monthly financial needs met they just quit showing up for work.
You see this even here. People start working a decent job, get a little scratch saved up, and then party and spend it all away while neglecting to show up for work. They live off credit and get into debt and either lack the discipline or simply don’t want to get out of it because it is comfortable enough.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 12:26 am to RogerTheShrubber
Laugh and downvote all you want but they definitely did
Posted on 7/31/19 at 12:33 am to fr33manator
quote:
They were stuck in the past when the world had moved on, probably because they didn’t need to.
This is probably as accurate and concise an explanation as any. Works for the native Americans too.
Posted on 7/31/19 at 12:45 am to biglego
quote:
This is probably as accurate and concise an explanation as any. Works for the native Americans too
The real tragedy is that the west’s efforts to “save them” have caused them to far outbreed their natural carrying capacity. So when left to their own devices what results is rampant violence and starvation.
The west should have fully conquered and established their own nations there, like Rhodesia, and ruled and guided them.
Africa has an innate desire to be ruled. And in the power vacuum lies chaos and bloodshed
Posted on 7/31/19 at 5:10 am to DavidTheGnome
quote:
There is ample natural resources for them to utilize but very little of the continent has grown into much of anything. Is it still because of colonization and the slave trade? Even this long after it has ended? South Africa is I guess the closest thing there to developed but it’s still rife with problems and unfortunately looks to be heading into a bad direction.
Because Africa as a continent is gigantic, but it is very difficult to get from one isolated terrain to another.
Mountains, desserts, and rain forest serve as impenetrable land routes between peoples. The rivers, while numerous and large, are not navigable (ie rapids and waterfalls exist abundantly). Because of this, it was very difficult to lol up people and cultures
Posted on 7/31/19 at 7:22 am to fr33manator
quote:
You see this even here. People start working a decent job, get a little scratch saved up, and then party and spend it all away while neglecting to show up for work.
You'll see folks quit work, or get fired, so they can just live off the government benefits. Here in Alabama, unemployment pays over $200 / week. That equates to about a $5-6/ hour job. Why work a full week for essentially about $4 / hour. Plus you have to pay for gas to get there, often have to buy lunch in an expensive cafeteria, buy uniforms, etc. It's just not worth the hassle for some folks.
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