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re: Why does weight room strength not always equal grappling strength?

Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:42 am to
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
34382 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:42 am to
quote:

leverage is king


When the kid (9) says "Dad lets wrestle!" this is his #1 lesson.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
21764 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:43 am to
If you have ever done Judo or BJJ you know being a meathead is not required to make the other guy tap out. Leverage and technique are way more important than strength.

Boxing/striking is equal parts strategy and strength though.
Posted by Koach K
Member since Nov 2016
4818 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:44 am to
Because they skip leg day
Posted by redfish99
B.R.
Member since Aug 2007
19332 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:47 am to
Leverage and core strength much more important
Posted by Cotten
Tennessee
Member since Jan 2018
1820 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:47 am to
I wrestled from Kindergarten through High School. I’d say stamina and endurance play much bigger factors than strength measured in a controlled setting (like lifting weights).
Posted by Rarnette
Member since Jul 2016
80 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:50 am to
Technique is definitely paramount. Someone with better technique can use their strength and weight to their advantage(leverage). You also have different muscle fibers that make up each muscle, body building doesn't necessarily train all of them. My years in martial arts have taught me that typically the bigger more muscular guys are easier to take as they are slow, have poor flexibility even though they are a bit more intimidating.
Posted by Tyga Woods
South Central Jupiter Island, FL
Member since Sep 2016
42222 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:52 am to
quote:

This is a disguised gorilla thread, isn't it?



Posted by lowhound
Effie
Member since Aug 2014
10248 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:53 am to
quote:

you left out speed/quickness in relation to grappling. That is huge.



You got to know when and where to move, not necessarily how fast you move. A spazzy new guy will get worked by someone the same size and strength but trained by just applying slow heavy pressure like a python. Flying armbars are just for TV.

quote:

So even with technique being equal someone that focuses on their total may be easily beaten by someone that has less strength in the major groups but has either or both more explosive power or a better balance of power over all the primary, secondary and tertiary muscles.


Even the Cross Fit guys that come in good shape and fitness level get gassed at first and worked by people of lesser "fitness level" because they know technique and can stay calm and control their breathing to use their technique and leverage. It's one thing to throw medicine balls and do the full body-up/burpee rotations, but a whole other level when you have another 180lb person trying to lay on you and strangle you at the same time. Try to explosively bench press someone off of you with a little training and see how quick you get arm barred or your back taken.
This post was edited on 1/7/21 at 8:56 am
Posted by Rebel
Graceland
Member since Jan 2005
143681 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 8:53 am to
Leverage and flexibility.
Posted by rexorotten
2314762 posts
Member since Oct 2013
5106 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:11 am to
Instinct and reflexes are also factors.
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
72064 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:12 am to
quote:

I think it all comes down to core strength.


And grip. If you have a strong grip and can keep wrist control it helps immensely.
Posted by UnitedFruitCompany
Bay Area
Member since Nov 2018
4068 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:13 am to
There was a rule at school when it came to fighting hierarchy. In order of potential success of winning:

Nerd
Athlete
Wrestler
Farmer

If you really wanted to test yourself you went up against the wrestler and you'd usually lose. However, you never ever fricked with the farmer kid. They have something called real world strength and it's fricking scary.
Posted by hollowpoint
Texas
Member since Sep 2019
1039 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:13 am to
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/18/21 at 8:58 pm
Posted by Hawgnsincebirth55
Gods country
Member since Sep 2016
18508 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:19 am to
quote:

This is a disguised gorilla thread, isn't it?
Posted by Packer
IE, California
Member since May 2017
8699 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:26 am to
quote:

Why does weight room strength not always equal grappling strength?



Outside of the already mentioned leverage, there is cardio endurance. You can't build up the cardio endurance it takes to grapple by just lifting weights.
Posted by Honest Tune
Louisiana
Member since Dec 2011
19285 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:29 am to
quote:

Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world


You just described me recently stuck in mud in the marsh in an aluminum flat boat... until Mr. Push Pole made his appearance.
Posted by BoostAddict
Member since Jun 2007
3207 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:32 am to
quote:

This is a disguised gorilla thread, isn't it?


A grizzly will pin a gorilla in 3 seconds. And then eat him.
Posted by Areddishfish
The Wild West
Member since Oct 2015
6538 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:35 am to
If technique is all else equal the person who does weightlifting is going to have the upper advantage. Even if someone has more skill than you, you can at least make it interesting by being stronger. I found when I used to do jiu jitsu that a lot of the other people didn't do weight training and as I learned more I was able to beat people in my same skill range pretty easily.
Posted by Muthsera
Member since Jun 2017
7319 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:39 am to
quote:

Shouldn’t the stronger person be able to win lik 99% of the time?


Willpower is at least as important.

If you know deep down that you're a pussy (most weightlifters are), then when push comes to shove, you will always be exposed as one.

Also, when it comes to scraps, there's no replacement for experience. Some dude that's gotten his bell rung 6 or 7 times has learned a lot of what not to do. Give me that guy over a dude twice his size that's never so much as thrown hands.
Posted by ELVIS U
Member since Feb 2007
11814 posts
Posted on 1/7/21 at 9:46 am to
Balance, flexibility, technique, experience, temperament, strategy, etc., etc., etc.. Resistance training is SUPPLEMENTAL training and not real fighting training.
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