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re: why do those who drink heavily think or use it because of bad kife
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:11 pm to northshorebamaman
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:11 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Respectfully, this is an appeal to motive fallacy that doesn't address or refute my point.
No it doesn’t. I get what you are saying, but a TON of alcoholics (current and “former”) absolve any responsibility in their own actions because it’s a “disease” and there was nothing they could do about it.
Same way obesity is a disease. You choose to put that shite in your gullet. Full stop
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:12 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:So we agree. I stated this pretty clearly.
Same way obesity is a disease. You choose to put that shite in your gullet. Full stop
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:42 pm to gumbo2176
quote:
Addiction is not a disease, it's a fricking choice people make. I propose I could be around hard core drug addicts or alcoholics for weeks at a time and I'll not catch their "Disease".
There are diseases that are not infectious, so this statement was off-base. But I agree with you that addiction is not a disease.
To put it better: Addiction was not a disease until they changed the definition of “disease”.
This post was edited on 9/12/26 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:50 pm to Penrod
quote:Who is 'they', which definition of “disease” changed, when did it change, and what was the old wording?
Addiction was not a disease until they changed the definition of “disease”.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:50 pm to Bernie Bierman
quote:
It is well known that any pathology must be transmissible in order for it to be classified as a disease.
I dont have any idea where it is "well known". That's simply a load of crap, as anyone with a hereditary disease or the big C will tell you.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:52 pm to Bernie Bierman
quote:Is this sarcasm?
Well said. It is well known that any pathology must be transmissible in order for it to be classified as a disease.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:53 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:
At some point you do make a conscious choice to become an addict.
If you're an alcoholic, then your experience is different from mine or anyone else's whom Ive ever spoken with.
If you're not, then stfu.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 3:57 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
quote:your mind tricks you into thinking you cannot live without whatever substance you’re addicted to - the dopamine hits from whatever eventually ruins your ability to control yourself because whatever it is makes you happy
At some point you do make a conscious choice to become an addict.
I mean, there have always been tons of alcoholics and drug addicts in my family - but there are other addictions too, that people don’t even realize they’re walking into
Posted on 9/12/26 at 4:01 pm to dgnx6
quote:
The fact you say former means you made a choice to no longer be this.
He made a conscious choice to drink, not a conscious choice to be an addict or alcoholic. Damn, you're dense.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 4:05 pm to LemmyLives
quote:
But Jesus will fix it all, right?
Correct.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 4:31 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Who is 'they', which definition of “disease” changed, when did it change, and what was the old wording?
It’s usage first, then definition. “They” are the same gaggle that is changing the definition of “literally”.
From ChatGPT:
quote:
Around 2000, the conventional clinical idea was closer to: A disease is an abnormality of bodily structure or function that produces a recognizable set of signs, symptoms, or impairment. That concept is still central, but modern medicine increasingly recognizes conditions before symptoms appear, conditions defined statistically or biologically, and behavioral/psychiatric syndromes where there may be no identifiable structural lesion.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 4:53 pm to Penrod
Your own quotation undermines your argument. It defines disease as “an abnormality of bodily structure or function that produces a recognizable set of signs, symptoms, or impairment.” Explain what excludes alcoholism from that definition. Impaired control over drinking, withdrawal, and disrupted brain function aren’t disqualified because drinking helped cause them.
It also explicitly says that concept “is still central.” Where does it say the definition had to change to accommodate alcoholism? You’ve supplied an unsourced ChatGPT summary, not an old definition and its replacement.
You claimed alcoholism became a disease because someone changed the definition. I asked who changed it, when, and what changed. A complaint about “literally” answers none of those questions.
It also explicitly says that concept “is still central.” Where does it say the definition had to change to accommodate alcoholism? You’ve supplied an unsourced ChatGPT summary, not an old definition and its replacement.
You claimed alcoholism became a disease because someone changed the definition. I asked who changed it, when, and what changed. A complaint about “literally” answers none of those questions.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 5:20 pm to Penrod
quote:
Addiction was not a disease until they changed the definition of “disease”.
Correct. I’d take it a step further and argue that the physically altered neural pathways and anatomical/functional changes seen in the brain in addiction don’t fit any definition of “disease” - classical or contemporary.
ETA: that’s why all these addiction research institutions investing millions of dollars to develop targeted therapeutics to specific areas of the brain is an absurd waste of time and resources. Willpower is all that is needed.
This post was edited on 9/12/26 at 5:43 pm
Posted on 9/12/26 at 6:33 pm to northshorebamaman
quote:
Your own quotation undermines your argument. It defines disease as “an abnormality of bodily structure or function that produces a recognizable set of signs, symptoms, or impairment.” Explain what excludes alcoholism from that definition.
Very simple. In actual diseases the abnormalities of bodily structure or function occur without agency of the individual stricken. In drug abuse or alcoholism there are no abnormalities until the individual poisons himself.
If we take your argument and run with it then a gunshot is a disease. It causes abnormalities of bodily structure and function.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 6:42 pm to Penrod
quote:
In actual diseases the abnormalities of bodily structure or function occur without agency of the individual stricken.
Precisely.
Non small cell lung cancer or COPD that develop in a person with a 50 year history of smoking 2 packs of cigarettes per day are not actual diseases since they never would have occurred without the personal agency.
This post was edited on 9/12/26 at 6:44 pm
Posted on 9/12/26 at 8:15 pm to TSS4LSU
sometimes looking at what is at the bottom of a bottle is better than and easier than looking at whats inside yourself.
dont judge until you been there.
dont judge until you been there.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 8:18 pm to TSS4LSU
Kife is an informal slang term that means to steal or pilfer an item.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 8:38 pm to Penrod
quote:You claimed the definition of disease was changed to accommodate alcoholism. I asked you to show the change. Instead, you’ve added a requirement that wasn’t in your own quotation: that diseases must occur “without agency of the individual.”
Very simple. In actual diseases the abnormalities of bodily structure or function occur without agency of the individual stricken. In drug abuse or alcoholism there are no abnormalities until the individual poisons himself.
If we take your argument and run with it then a gunshot is a disease. It causes abnormalities of bodily structure and function.
Does lung cancer stop being a disease when someone gets it from smoking? Does cirrhosis stop being a disease when someone drinks himself into it? Personal responsibility doesn’t determine medical classification.
And the gunshot example challenges the precision of the definition YOU supplied. It does nothing to establish that anyone changed it to include alcoholism.
You accused others of rewriting the definition to include alcoholism, then rewrote it yourself to exclude it. Where did your “without agency” requirement come from?
Posted on 9/12/26 at 8:40 pm to Bernie Bierman
quote:Ok. This is definitely sarcasm.
Precisely.
Non small cell lung cancer or COPD that develop in a person with a 50 year history of smoking 2 packs of cigarettes per day are not actual diseases since they never would have occurred without the personal agency.
Posted on 9/12/26 at 8:41 pm to TSS4LSU
quote:
why do those who drink heavily think or use it because of bad kife
My kife might not be as good as yours, but it’s trying
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