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re: Why do people think electric cars are somehow better for the environment?
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:54 am to oleheat
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:54 am to oleheat
As more people buy them, more charging stations will be established. I mean any infrastructure like this would take time, but I don't think it would take decades.
The first commercial mobile phone was released in 1983. By 1995, there was a large enough infrastructure in place with cell phone towers that cell phones became a part of everyday life for many Americans. Look at fiber optic, gigablast internet, etc. in the past decade. If the demand is there, infrastructure to support the demand will increase like crazy.
But, it is a valid point nonetheless.
ETA: Just checked a MAP of charging stations around BR and there are a ton of them.
The first commercial mobile phone was released in 1983. By 1995, there was a large enough infrastructure in place with cell phone towers that cell phones became a part of everyday life for many Americans. Look at fiber optic, gigablast internet, etc. in the past decade. If the demand is there, infrastructure to support the demand will increase like crazy.
But, it is a valid point nonetheless.
ETA: Just checked a MAP of charging stations around BR and there are a ton of them.
This post was edited on 1/14/19 at 12:09 pm
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Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:56 am to Loaner1231
quote:
I think you also have to get to the point where recharging the vehicle is as quick as refilling a tank of gas.
Very good point.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 11:59 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
I'm sure the cost of electricity will remain static when the demand for it exponentially increases
Did you even think this through?
The average LA residential customer uses about 1200kWh per month. The average driver drives about 1100 miles per month, so figure 2200 miles for a 2 car home. This equates to roughly 370 kWh per month to charge current EVs for 2200 miles of travel. So only about a 30% increase in electric usage for the average LA home. Not even close to an exponential increase and doesn't take into account the significant amount of charging can occur in off-peak hours where there is already excess generation ability. Also, consider the reduction in electrical use to refine the oil.
There is no doubt that there will need to be more money spent on electrical infrastructure, something we already need to do. However, it is not nearly the exponential increase in demand that you suggest. There will be time periods when the growth of demand for recharging EVs is exponential but not the overall demand for electricity.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:00 pm to Tigeralum2008
quote:
The reason I am pro-electric has nothing to do with the environment. It is simply cost. I can get 300 miles out of my electric vehcile at a cost of $1.75 whereas 300 miles on a camry would be $10.75 (roughly assuming 30 MPG and gas price of $1.75/gal). That cost of gasoline also goes up at a greater rate than electricity when the price of oil increases.
How do you recharge and how long does it take? (Serious question.)
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:05 pm to Darth_Vader
because they are. The energy from a power plant, especially a nuclear plant, is much "cleaner" than the equivalent amount of gasoline burning.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:07 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
But the electricity used to charge the battery has to come from somewhere, namely a power plant.
But a centralized power plant is geared to run more efficiently than a conventional gas engine so you’ll realize gains even through transmission losses.
And even if a fraction of power came from renewable sources, you’ll have that much more.
Personally I was a big fan of optimized gas engine, all electric hybrids as an intermediate to this.
And I think the future needs to be in nuclear power.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:12 pm to Darth_Vader
I think the argument is two fold
1. Production of electricity is much cleaner than the combination of refining the oil and emissions of gas powered engines.
2. A belief that one day our electricity will come completely or nearly completely from renewable resources.
As for the batteries, I don't know the science/technology behind it, but I'm sure they aren't that much worse for the environment than the battery that is already in your car?
1. Production of electricity is much cleaner than the combination of refining the oil and emissions of gas powered engines.
2. A belief that one day our electricity will come completely or nearly completely from renewable resources.
As for the batteries, I don't know the science/technology behind it, but I'm sure they aren't that much worse for the environment than the battery that is already in your car?
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:14 pm to NoHoTiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/21/20 at 9:16 am
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:17 pm to NoHoTiger
quote:
A friend got into an argument with stupid douche hipster one day. My friend told him that to generate electricity you have to burn fossil fuels. The moron kept insisting that (1) my friend was wrong; (2) he used less energy because he used less gas; (3) electricity comes from the outlet, not fossil fuels.
I guess you just can't fix stupid.
100% you can't fix stupid. Sounds like your friend and the hipster are both stupid.
You can absolutely produce electricity on a large scale without using fossil fuels. Also hipster probably pedals to work and does use less energy than your friend
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:24 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I notice my OP is getting plenty of downvotes but no intelligent counterpoints. Wonder why that is?
b/c this is blatantly a lets have a discussion where I ignore any and all counterpoints b/c my mind is already made up politard thread that has bled over into the OT?
#notallbikers
This post was edited on 1/14/19 at 12:25 pm
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:25 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
Chile, China, Australia and Argentina have the largest reserves of lithium. The US has some of the largest Sodium Carbonate reserves. Sulpher reserves are found in the O&G heavy countries.
Then we must be pro these then in our own tech.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:26 pm to oleheat
quote:When the world passes this poster by, will he even realize?
Few if any of those pushing this idea will ever stoop to owning one; those are for the schmucks who actually think they're saving the planet by driving one (as if their decision is that pivotal ).
Don't look for any of the Learjet Libs they adore to be trading theirs in for a blimp anytime soon, either. But keep following their orders, Dummies.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:26 pm to Scruffy
quote:
It still has somewhat of an issue in rechargability rate, unless that was fixed as well.
For example, Scruffy gets 600+ per tank. When he runs out, he can fill the tank in under 10 mins and continue his journey for another 600 miles.
How long does it take to charge a Tesla? If you are going on a trip that is greater than 600 miles, will you have to sit and wait 45 mins to 1 hr every time you run low?
The tech has significant room for improvement.
And currently, their use is limited by the distance between charging stations more than anything.
Until the technology catches up, I think people could rent or use a shared car app for road trips. If you travel everyday then obviously you would own a hybrid/gas car.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:27 pm to NoHoTiger
quote:Questionable decision since he's definitely wrong.
I agree with you.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:27 pm to shel311
Super Capicitor technology will be rolling out to take the place of current car batteries.
Fast charging. Light. No lead.
Game changer in 2-3 years.
Fast charging. Light. No lead.
Game changer in 2-3 years.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:29 pm to Darth_Vader
Electric cars are good because they take advantage of the power grid. How much money in infrastructure have we invested in for the transportation and distribution of gasoline? Imagine if those same investments had been made in our aging power grid. There should be some major economies of scale and if environmental issues are a problem then switch the source for the grid to something cleaner.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:36 pm to TOSOV
quote:
quote:
Chile, China, Australia and Argentina have the largest reserves of lithium. The US has some of the largest Sodium Carbonate reserves. Sulpher reserves are found in the O&G heavy countries.
Then we must be pro these then in our own tech.
I agree BUT I think the rare earths situation is far more of an economic and strategic concern. We need to get as much rare earths in the US as possibly and keep them here by not offshoring their recycling.
Posted on 1/14/19 at 12:38 pm to shel311
quote:
When the world passes this poster by, will he even realize?
Probably not.
Neither will you, since we'll both likely be too old to drive, anyway.
Either way, I'm still holding out for the creation of the Saltwater Hydro-Combustion Engine in 316 Stainless. Suck it, electricity!
Posted on 1/14/19 at 1:01 pm to oliveandblue
quote:
2. They are financially cheap on the user's end. My local train station offers free charging.
They're only cheaper if you ignore the ~$10,000 cost premium at acquisition or the $5,000+ battery disposal/deferred maintenance cost after 8-10 years of use. Versus the nonhybrid version of the same car, hybrid is always more expensive.
Let's not forget acquisition cost is the first cost of ownership, nor ignore the real cost of charging it in your garage (retrofit to accommodate charging plus significantly higher electric bills). "Free" public charging isn't really free anyway.
At less than $2 a gallon, gas powered is cheaper and remains cheaper until gas prices are close to European prices, which will never happen in the USA.
This post was edited on 1/14/19 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 1/14/19 at 1:15 pm to shawnlsu
quote:
So you don’t think adding about 200 million extra “dryers or ranges” that have to be plugged in for hours every day would be a big deal on the overall power grid?
quote:
He didn't or couldn't think that one through.
Level 1 car charger consumption is about the same as a single space heater. Level 2 is about like adding another water heater and window AC unit. Again...most will be charging at night when most other appliances are not in use. It isn't insignificant...but it also isn't like running a 220V range on high during the middle of the day, either.
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