re: What do you consider middle class?

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It's income, regardless of his initial costs having already been taxed. Why is that income treated differently than any other income? He only gets taxed on gains. Those gains were not already taxed. Why are the rates on that money ~25% less than what he would pay if, like us, he actually had to work for income?

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He is playing semantics. The biggest difference between Warren Buffett's tax rate and his secretary's is that he has long ago passed the FICA maximum (which was around $100k back when he made this statement). So the secretary is paying FICA (7.5% on her end - 15% if self employed) and whatever her tax rate is - which is equal to or lower than the capital gains rate of 15-20%.

It's semantics because FICA is more of a delayed benefit than a tax. So the secretary might be in the 15% tax bracket, but because of a benefit that she is forced to fund called FICA her effective "tax" rate is higher than someone taking long term capital gains rate.

Here is a way to think about the long term capital gains rate. Let's say you own a 1000-acre farm worth $1 million that had a bad crop year and you made little to no profit. Your farm has also just increased in value 30% because of rising interest in farmland as an asset. Should you be required to pay taxes on $300k of your "gain" despite having no real profit?

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The only reason the water is muddied is because a shite ton of this board was raised upper class and was told it was middle class, so their view is warped. People typically have no clue how many people are making it on far, far less than they are.

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This is a great description of America. The Haves v. The Nots. The only problem, the The Haves think they are the have nots. This ideology breeds greed and fear.

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There have been many times where there was a proposed limit on capital gains tax breaks. Amazingly, none of them ever pass. The guy making $10M/year off capital gains rates gets the same break as the guy making $10K/year, aka, the peon.

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Every single post of yours in this thread drips of greed and envy.

Maybe try focusing on your own life instead of being perpetually butthurt about those more successful than you?

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My wife and I made less than 100k when we first got married. Granted, this was 15 years ago. We lived in a cheap house (i think our mortgage was $875) and drove inexpensive vehicles.

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I like the old saw, "it's not how much you make but how much you keep," I see a lot of guys where I work that are making pretty decent coin($30-40k/mo.) that are living way above their means, would probably be in panic mode to miss a month's pay, and I see a lot that are living in their first house, kids are through college, house paid off, just socking it away and are in a position to retire early and live out their lives very comfortably

ETA: talked to a friend yesterday that just bought an airplane because 3.5 hours driving to visit his son at college was just too long of a drive

Some people care about keeping up with the Jones'.

Some people want to live as far away from the Jones' as possible.

The former live paycheck to paycheck, no matter their income.

The latter will retire comfortably, even at much lower income level.

Yep, it cracks me up.

For those complaining that the wife must work and still can't save like your parents...

Did your parents have a 1000 dollar computer in their hands at all times that also cost 100/month per? For most families of 4, this is a 4k investment yearly at a minimum.

Did your parents have cable that cost 100/month? Internet that cost $75 or so? There is another $2500 or so. What about Netflix, Hulu, etc??

Did they drive a 50k plus vehicle? Hell did they even have 2 vehicles? Did they go get a new one every 4-5 years?? frick no!!!

Did they live in a 2000+ square foot house??? Most didn't. Even families of 4 didn't. 2500 used to be consider rather large, now it's a starting point for many middle house families.

Did they have iPads, TV in every room?

Go to dinner 3-4 times a week?

Kids play travel ball or other sports that cost money?? Most didn't, growing up, only thing I knew that cost was dancing and gymnastics and it wasn't travel or competition squad shite. Beauty pageant...yea you did the local fair and maybe one regional show.


Middle class hasn't changed. If you make 100k you can still live great, but you have to give up the things that the upper middle class and the rich have. The main mother fricker complaining I'm here lives in Nashville, one of the most expensive cities in the south. Apparently has a shitty job and doesn't understand economics.

Gaston jumps in, and although he is smart as shite, has been shown to be a fool with personal finance in previous threads.

The stats don't lie. The problem is everyone wants what the rich have and still be able to live like their parents or grandparents did.

People make stupid arse decisions and that's fine, but stop whining about it.

Have a shitty job?? That's your fault, you chose your career path. Almost everyone I know that complains, didn't get a degree and barely graduated high school. These same SOBs where told by teachers all throughout school, that if they didn't start studying they would end up being a ditch digger or a trashman and now are surprised and pissed they are digging ditches. Same people that complain about common core math homework for little Johnny in second grade talking about how it's so stupid and they can't even help him with it. Newsflash Karen, you couldn't do second grade math in second grade, wtf makes you think you can do it after being out of school for 10 years? These are the same people who didn't learn a trade, had kids out of wedlock and get 5 or 6 W2s every year and they wonder why they struggle.

The other people I see complaining are the ones that went to college and majored in what they wanted to do, despite knowing it would not pay well. They knew teaching, sorts reporting and being a social worker would not pay well going in, now they want to complain.

We all make choices in life, people that have chosen the easy path are usually the ones who complain the loudest with things turn out as predicted.

Also little business lesson... Businesses work off of profit margin. Raise taxes on a business and guess what??? Prices rise.

Complaining about CEO pay is typical bullshite jealousy and shows a complete lack of understanding of economics and business. Thinking CEOs are just getting paid 10 million in cash is fricking laughable.

The same ones saying they are working 60 hours a week...that's such bullshite. Unless you live in NYC, LA etc and work for a huge law firm or accounting etc...hardly anyone is working that. You are lying unless you are in construction.

Bottom line is people live way above there means and want the 500k mcmassion, the Platinum SUV, platinum truck, 75k bayboat, while sending kids to private school and then claim to be middle class. Or they want those things and can't afford it on a middle class salary and they complain.

The middle class have it so good in the US it isn't even funny. Please, somone name a time it was better so I can show you are full of shite.

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Maybe try focusing on your own life instead of being perpetually butthurt about those more successful than you?

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I'm upper middle. Six figure salary as an engineer and have been with my company 20 years. Wife is an RN and does well. Should I just shut my mouth and act dumb and happy because we're doing pretty well or should I recognize that we would have it a WHOLE lot better if we were born 40 years earlier?

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If you think that’s struggling your bank accounts have zero doubt been hijacked by your significant other

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Or I just don't think a mcmansion in the suburbs with one yearly vacation to Legoland is "living."

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Or I just don't think a mcmansion in the suburbs with one yearly vacation to Legoland is "living."

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Living or not, this is squarely in the upper middle class range.