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re: What do you consider middle class?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:16 am to windshieldman
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:16 am to windshieldman
quote:
I think we can agree that CPAs should be paid more. Sounds like a headache of a profession.
I agree comrade!
0
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:17 am to HarveyBanger
quote:
Let’s say for a family of 4.
Generically, I would say about $50k - and that would be solidly in the middle class except in high cost areas on the coasts, etc.
Now, you can get away with less than that in Jackson, MS, and places like that.
But, much below $40k, $45k anywhere, you're at the upper edge of working poor for a family of 4.
And middle class is pretty broad in 2020 - probably runs up to about $120k to $130k before you start thinking "upper" middle class, again outside of very high cost of living areas like San Francisco, L.A., NYC, etc.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:17 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Scandinavian countries consistently rank near the top in the world "happiness" rankings. They get free school, health care, plenty of leisure time, retirement, etc. The extra taxes they pay for this actually comes out as one hell of a deal if you were to count all we pay out of pocket for these things instead of just looking at our tax rates.
they also can never break out of what we would consider lower-middle class (lower even that for the opinions in this thread)
also they live in a very tiered society that is literally geared to preventing upward mobility. you want to go to college but score slightly too low in elementary school on their testing? tough titty, you're on the trade track for the rest of your life
you ever see what a mortgage looks like in Sweden? it's generational debt
quote:
Regulators introduced restrictions which will mean mortgage terms - the time homebuyers have to clear the debt - will be drastically reduced to just... 105 years.
quote:
So as prices rose and affordability became tougher, Swedish banks' response was to extend terms, as had been the case in other high-cost property markets including Japan in the Eighties.
The average term is reported to be 140 years. This meant many people who inherited property but who could not afford to take on the mortgage debt had to sell up.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:18 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Why are the rates on that money ~25% less than what he would pay if, like us, he actually had to work for income?
Because he is like an investor and super duper important to the economy and America. We would never make it without our rich overlords and all their Stans in this thread.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:18 am to Centinel
quote:
Do you have a 401k or 403b, or take part in a state or local government defined pension plan?
FFS.
You're out of your element. Go run along and join the rest of the herd on the PoliBoard with your uninformed, binary, partisan drivel.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:19 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
.once again trying to blame poor people instead of looking at the system itself.
"the system" is an undefined boogey man
and i've gone through financials on hundreds of poor people at this point in my career and it's often mind-numbing
$500+ car notes and insane phone/tv bills are the norm. it's not "the system", unless you want to make that system personal and call it culture
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:20 am to fallguy_1978
quote:
And employees used to work for the same company their entire careers rather than changing jobs every year for a 5% raise. It goes both ways dude.
the "Leadership Secrets of Attila the Hun" era of CEOs in the 80s set the "middle class" rung substantially lower and really screwed up the way companies should be run, a few left with untold millions/billions and left great companies in ruins or even non-existent, seems to be correcting back to a better corporate ideology
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:21 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Warren Buffet famously stated he, the 3rd richest man in the world, paid a lower rate than his secretary.
Tell Buffet to STFU and pay all the money he wants to the government. He's free to do so HERE. He can go virtue signal with his own damn money and leave the rest of us alone.
quote:
They get free school, health care, plenty of leisure time, retirement, etc.
Day ONE of basic economics: there's no such thing as a free lunch. They pay for all this "free" stuff.
quote:
It's sad that folks are stanning for the rich when those policies they're supporting will prevent them from becoming wealthy.
I think it's wrong for the government to forcibly take anyone's money: rich, poor, middle class. Don't care. Taxation is theft. Period.
We've had a progressive tax system since it was conceived in 1913. The gap between rich and poor hasn't shrunk, it's grown. What does that tell you? Progressive taxation doesn't work. It is impossible for the government to social engineer using the tax code. They should stop. Move to a flat tax or even better a VAT tax. The economy will sort out the winners and losers.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:22 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
He can afford, due to his wealth, to hire an army of accountants and lawyers to save him every penny he can.
you're over-complicating capital gains
the underlying argument is about capital gains rates for the rich
quote:
Real estate taxes are advantageous to those who can afford to play the game.
not for people like Warren Buffet. you're talking about a much, much lower class of upper-income earners
quote:
Amazon had something like $30 BILLION in profits last year. Their real tax rate was 1.2%. That should embarrass our representatives in DC.
why? i asked earlier if you understood why this was, and you didn't respond i don't think
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:22 am to mmmmmbeeer
Family of 4 around here is around $80K. Biggest expense here is paying for your kids school. 
That is around 6K per kid now.
That is around 6K per kid now.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:23 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Why are the rates on that money ~25% less than what he would pay if, like us, he actually had to work for income?
We often pay 0% on the same income, to be fair.
If you want all income to be taxed the same, you need to be prepared for the side effects.
Property taxes would skyrocket as municipalities would have to pay much higher interest rates on their debt. Let's start there.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:23 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Used to be, CEOs cared about longterm growth and taking care of their people. Quarterly numbers were important but as long as the business was growing and headed toward realizing the long term goals of leadership, they really didn't care.
Now? These schools are teaching exactly what you posted...short term, quarter-to-quarter performance, long term be damned.
it's hilarious that you post this while also criticizing Amazon a few posts prior
guess what: Amazon didn't pay a ton in taxes b/c it utilized the long-term growth strategy that "the system" allows
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:23 am to HarveyBanger
I can’t see how a family survives on less than 100k in halfway decent area
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:24 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
It's income, regardless of his initial costs having already been taxed. Why is that income treated differently than any other income?
public policy to incentivize investing for peons
quote:
He only gets taxed on gains. Those gains were not already taxed.
the money used to purchase the capital asset was. capital gains should be 0%
quote:
Why are the rates on that money ~25% less than what he would pay if, like us, he actually had to work for income?
because they're not ordinary income? because our government wanted to incentivize people to invest for their retirement?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:25 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
FFS.
You're out of your element. Go run along and join the rest of the herd on the PoliBoard with your uninformed, binary, partisan drivel.
Are you unable to answer the question?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:25 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
can’t see how a family survives on less than 100k in halfway decent area
Methinks your definition of survival is much different than most families.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:25 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
I can’t see how a family survives on less than 100k in halfway decent area
prepare thy anus, I made that observation a week or so ago and the Louisiana poors jumped all in my shite, I think the figure was $116k?, and I said that was not a comfortable living wage in a whole lot of places in the US
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
because our government wanted to incentivize people to invest for their retirement?
Sure but if you are investing via 401ks or IRAs that money is taxed as "ordinary income" when withdrawn. So the benefits of the capital gains rates are lost for a majority of Americans.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:26 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
in halfway decent area
Because your definition of "halfway decent" isn't everyone else's?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:29 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the underlying argument is about capital gains rates for the rich
There's a lot more shady shite going on than just capital gains.
quote:
why? i asked earlier if you understood why this was, and you didn't respond i don't think
I was wrong, it's $13B. But still, that PROFIT....not revenue, PROFIT. I'd love to hear how you justify 1.2% corporate tax on a $13B profit. I mean, I know how they get there...manipulating the value of every asset they own (depreciation), deferrals, compensation via stock, etc. But you think that's all justified? 21% they're supposed to pay but they pay 1.2%....lay it on me, man.
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