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re: What do you consider middle class?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 7:59 am to mmmmmbeeer
Posted on 2/10/20 at 7:59 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Warren Buffet famously stated he, the 3rd richest man in the world, paid a lower rate than his secretary.
May have something to do with WB hires a lot of folks where as his secretary doesn’t. I don’t know, I’m asking really, I just assume that’s why his tax rate is lower. There may be other taxes he pays also that his secretary doesn’t.
2
Posted on 2/10/20 at 7:59 am to dewster
quote:
The Trump tax cuts were a net positive for us, and I consider myself middle class. That little bump went towards a much needed vacation, where we spent on flights, hotels, shopping, restaurants, etc. That helped stimulate the economy and secure employment for people that worked at all of those businesses.
Perhaps more importantly, companies and manufacturers that were on the fence about hiring or a major cap ex project are pulling the trigger. So it’s good for our long term business and for the employees of those firms as evident by the very low unemployment rate.
Interestingly enough, tax revenue didn’t actually decrease after those tax cuts. It put our corporate tax rate more in line with our competitors and we are better for it. It appears to have been the right thing to do although I concede that stumping for middle class people and their employers isn’t as popular among young people.
Oh yea, well
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:00 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:happy homogeneous population
Scandinavian countries consistently rank near the top in the world "happiness" rankings.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:01 am to AUCE05
quote:
just dont see someone who lives off of debt to be middleclass.
To me middle class is a statistical figure, 25th to 75th percentile for household income.
Though thats just income. It is easy to imagine people being stupid with their money and having to live off of debt to survive. Too much lifestyle, credit card debt, too much house, too much truck... how many people in the middle class have a $60k truck they dont really use and can't afford?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:01 am to SuperSaint
quote:
I couldn't imagine voluntarily wanting to live in Columbia, greenville, or Charlotte which is just a more boring white bread version of Atlanta.
I'd rather live in any of those places than SF or NYC
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:02 am to windshieldman
quote:
May have something to do with WB hires a lot of folks where as his secretary doesn’t. I don’t know, I’m asking really, I just assume that’s why his tax rate is lower. There may be other taxes he pays also that his secretary doesn’t.
He pays a lower effective tax rate because not all income is created equal. Pretty straight forward. He has capital gains, qualified dividends, municipal bond interest, etc.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:03 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
If your household isn't making $300k+ annually, you're getting fricked. It's sad that folks are stanning for the rich when those policies they're supporting will prevent them from becoming wealthy.
Huh?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:04 am to slackster
quote:
He pays a lower effective tax rate because not all income is created equal. Pretty straight forward. He has capital gains, qualified dividends, municipal bond interest, etc
I gotcha, I never can figure out the tax system. I assume you also got tax breaks when you hire a lot of people?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:05 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
once again trying to blame poor people instead of looking at the system itself.
It's, like, the system, maaaaaaaan.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:06 am to SEClint
quote:
260k between 2 people.
2 people averaging 130K is high
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:07 am to windshieldman
quote:
May have something to do with WB hires a lot of folks where as his secretary doesn’t. I don’t know, I’m asking really, I just assume that’s why his tax rate is lower. There may be other taxes he pays also that his secretary doesn’t.
No, you're right. He can afford, due to his wealth, to hire an army of accountants and lawyers to save him every penny he can. That said, it's also the tax laws. Real estate taxes are advantageous to those who can afford to play the game. Carried interest, capital gains, asset depreciation, etc...all these tax laws are written the way lobbyists for the wealthy and corporations want them to be written just to get the rich more breaks.
I mean, I'd do the same thing, as I'm sure most on this board would (and do). But ultimately that shifts the tax burden downward, like to Buffet's secretary and the rest of the middle class. It's bullshite.
Amazon had something like $30 BILLION in profits last year. Their real tax rate was 1.2%. That should embarrass our representatives in DC.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:08 am to Centinel
The system is that investors want a return on their money...so companies always drive costs lower and lower. Find people who are willing to invest for nothing and you’ll have your utopia.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:08 am to windshieldman
quote:
gotcha, I never can figure out the tax system. I assume you also got tax breaks when you hire a lot of people?
There were breaks for companies for hiring recently. Don't think they still exist though.
Buffet's quip about his secretary is based on his personal income though, at least that's the way I've always taken it.
You can own $10MM in municipal bonds, draw $350k per year in interest income, and pay no taxes. Does that mean our tax system is flawed?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:08 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Man, there are sooo many loopholes for the rich that this is just a ridiculous thing to say. Warren Buffet famously stated he, the 3rd richest man in the world, paid a lower rate than his secretary.
That's because most of his income comes from long term capital gains. You know, money he's made from other money that's already been taxed?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:08 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Amazon had something like $30 BILLION in profits last year. Their real tax rate was 1.2%. That should embarrass our representatives in DC.
Why do you keep repeating this? It has already been addressed. Find a new talking point.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:12 am to Gaston
quote:
The system is that investors want a return on their money.
There have been some really interesting articles written about this "new economy" and the role that business educations play in the changes.
Used to be, CEOs cared about longterm growth and taking care of their people. Quarterly numbers were important but as long as the business was growing and headed toward realizing the long term goals of leadership, they really didn't care.
Now? These schools are teaching exactly what you posted...short term, quarter-to-quarter performance, long term be damned. They will layoff a couple hundred workers just to make a single quarter look better to investors. They're out to make the quick buck instead of building long term, valuable assets.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:13 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
No, you're right. He can afford, due to his wealth, to hire an army of accountants and lawyers to save him every penny he can. That said, it's also the tax laws. Real estate taxes are advantageous to those who can afford to play the game. Carried interest, capital gains, asset depreciation, etc...all these tax laws are written the way lobbyists for the wealthy and corporations want them to be written just to get the rich more breaks.
I think we can agree that CPAs should be paid more. Sounds like a headache of a profession.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:15 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Used to be, CEOs cared about longterm growth and taking care of their people. Quarterly numbers were important but as long as the business was growing and headed toward realizing the long term goals of leadership, they really didn't care.
Now? These schools are teaching exactly what you posted...short term, quarter-to-quarter performance, long term be damned. They will layoff a couple hundred workers just to make a single quarter look better to investors. They're out to make the quick buck instead of building long term, valuable assets.
And employees used to work for the same company their entire careers rather than changing jobs every year for a 5% raise. It goes both ways dude.
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:15 am to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
Used to be, CEOs cared about longterm growth and taking care of their people. Quarterly numbers were important but as long as the business was growing and headed toward realizing the long term goals of leadership, they really didn't care.
Now? These schools are teaching exactly what you posted...short term, quarter-to-quarter performance, long term be damned. They will layoff a couple hundred workers just to make a single quarter look better to investors. They're out to make the quick buck instead of building long term, valuable assets.
Do you have a 401k or 403b, or take part in a state or local government defined pension plan?
Posted on 2/10/20 at 8:16 am to fallguy_1978
quote:
That's because most of his income comes from long term capital gains. You know, money he's made from other money that's already been taxed?
It's income, regardless of his initial costs having already been taxed. Why is that income treated differently than any other income? He only gets taxed on gains. Those gains were not already taxed. Why are the rates on that money ~25% less than what he would pay if, like us, he actually had to work for income?
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