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re: What are BTR’s (Baton Rouge airport) long-term plans to remain competitive and viable

Posted on 2/13/18 at 10:42 am to
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8973 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 10:42 am to
quote:

Seems like EWR or ORD would be a better shot, no?

Supposed to be a shortage of gates at JFK if I'm not mistaken. Neither OKC or BMA has non-stop to JFK, although I think BMA has one to LGA, which is more domestic focused.


JFK is slot controlled while EWR and ORD are not. I'd say that moves JFK pretty far down the list. If you are Delta you are content connecting your European flow over ATL and if need be, facilitating a double connections over JFK or CDG/AMS (where its SkyTeam JV partners hub). AA has CLT and can do the same thing with PHL/ORD or to a lesser extent LHR.

United might make sense for ORD, they are trying to build their network out and recently signed with another regional carrier to add 50-seat RJs that might work on the route with enough connecting flow.

Keep in mind however, that those 18 passengers to LGA and those 14 to EWR currently support that flight to ATL or CLT. If those passengers end up on a new nonstop flight the airline has to back fill them to CLT or ATL. Either pricing a new connecting flight low enough to entice demand, or flying smaller aircraft. There is a bit of a rob Peter to pay Paul effect here.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 10:58 am
Posted by BRIllini07
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2015
3211 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 11:12 am to
quote:

United might make sense for ORD, they are trying to build their network out and recently signed with another regional carrier to add 50-seat RJs that might work on the route with enough connecting flow


For the petrochemical industry UA to ORD would be useful. More directs to Asia from ORD than IAH and the end result is more complete 1-stop coverage to Europe as well. Right now AA is more useful for Asia and Delta more convenient for Europe.

The other major BR industries,

Government - Probably best served by adding DCA?
Health Care - Don't know
Academia - Don't know

For leisure/infrequent travelers, I don't know if the slightly less convenient trek to MSY really bothers people that fly once every 2 years, so don't know if it's worth BTR chasing after that demand.
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33146 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 11:19 am to
quote:

For the petrochemical industry UA to ORD would be useful. More directs to Asia from ORD than IAH and the end result is more complete 1-stop coverage to Europe as well. Right now AA is more useful for Asia and Delta more convenient for Europe.


ORD would be a great new addition for BTR even if it were just once or twice daily.

quote:

Government - Probably best served by adding DCA?


I think they could support DCA right now. Jackson, Huntsville, and Little Rock have an AA connection to DCA.
AA just just added a Montgomery connection to DCA and from what I understand they are seriously considering Baton Rouge as well.

American seems to actually be trying to encroach on Delta's stronghold in a lot of southern towns.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 11:26 am
Posted by Reservoir dawg
Member since Oct 2013
15168 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 11:23 am to
quote:

I know Fed Ex is thriving in Memphis. On my most recent trip up there right around horn lake and Southaven you start seeing one after an other on dual runways


Fed Ex had about 175 daily departures 25 years ago from MEM. I'm not sure what the current tally is.
Posted by Reservoir dawg
Member since Oct 2013
15168 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 11:31 am to
quote:

city of BR is a lot bigger and the statistical area is almost identical. are you factoring in MSY being so near to BTR? That's a fair point because Knoxville has no major airport nearby



Knoxville is very similar in size to Baton Rouge. TYS is a bigger market on its own than BTR.
Posted by dewster
Chicago
Member since Aug 2006
26627 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 11:38 am to
quote:

For the petrochemical industry UA to ORD would be useful.


ORD is one of the new destinations they are working on.
Posted by BRIllini07
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2015
3211 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:25 pm to
In another direction, I’d like them to keep the separate PJ’s coffee stand open instead of forcing it all to WOW counter. A cup of coffee has a comically high margin so I’m not sure why they make it harder to get by making coffee purchases go to the food line.

Still better than before the renovations though.
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8973 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:31 pm to
Those are some good points. As for the UA flight, that would make sense, but I wonder how much of the petrochemical demand UA takes is in the front cabin. Right now there are a lot of flights to IAH with a first class, to do that to ORD would require a bigger RJ. May or may not be feasible depending on the corporate contracts.

DCA is an interesting one because AA currently serves similar markets from DCA (JAN, MGM come to mind). The biggest issue is slots at DCA, and how much CLT relies on DC bound service (DCA, IAD, BWI). As long as it doesn't cannibalize CLT service it could be logical.

Delta served the route post-Katrina before and during the Northwest merger but cut it due to profitability issues (albeit during the height of fuel prices).
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8973 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

Fed Ex had about 175 daily departures 25 years ago from MEM. I'm not sure what the current tally is.


FOr the 12 months ending June 2017 (latest available with international data), FedEx operated an average of 185 departures a day from MEM, the peak month, December, averaged 201 daily.

Contrast that to UPS at its Louisville hub averaging 107/day with a peak of 141 daily in December
Posted by dupergreenie
Member since May 2014
10224 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:40 pm to
This is about to happen at msy with southwest and spirit.
Posted by dupergreenie
Member since May 2014
10224 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:47 pm to
Southwest announced they are flying out of Everett Washington.... close to Seattle. Take everything southwest says publicly with a grain of salt.
Posted by The Korean
Denham Springs, LA
Member since May 2008
1651 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:51 pm to
I once decided to fly out of BTR for business rather than NOLA. My flight was at 6 or 6:30 in morning. I don't like to be rushed, so I get there at least an hour and half early. Security wasn't open and the line was wrapping around where you go up the escalators. It was dreadfully slow getting through security because they were understaffed. I was about a literal minute from missing my flight. I will never willingly step foot in there again.
Posted by LouisianaLady
Member since Mar 2009
83168 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:52 pm to
I’ve never in my life waited in line at BTR. I have precheck and don’t even have to use it there.

Believe me, your experience is not normal.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 12:53 pm
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33146 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:53 pm to
quote:

I’ve never in my life waited in line at BTR. I have precheck and don’t even have to use it there.



One of the easiest airports I've been to.

I like OKC and Tulsa airports as well.
Posted by The Korean
Denham Springs, LA
Member since May 2008
1651 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 1:02 pm to
Perhaps it was just one of those times based on flights and # of people going out at about same time.
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8973 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 1:08 pm to
quote:

Southwest announced they are flying out of Everett Washington.... close to Seattle. Take everything southwest says publicly with a grain of salt.


True, but Paine Field and northern Seattle are not analogous to New Orleans and Baton Rouge.

SeaTac is located south of the city and getting there from points north is notoriously difficult. The new Paine Field passenger terminal opens up a two gate terminal in an extremely wealthy part of the country.

There are a limited number of operations allowed at the airport (I want to say 30 or 40 arrivals or departures) and Southwest jumped in to get the last of them (after Alaska and United). This is one of those limited domestic opportunities they have cited, in addition to CVG a little over a year ago.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 1:10 pm
Posted by BRIllini07
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2015
3211 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

but I wonder how much of the petrochemical demand UA takes is in the front cabin. Right now there are a lot of flights to IAH with a first class, to do that to ORD would require a bigger RJ


I think most (if not all) have provisions for business class travel on long-haul flights. But I think that just puts more money on the table for UA. So yeah, I think an E-175 or CRJ-700 should be used on that route. Maybe 1x/day with a larger jets (depart in the AM, return in the PM) to be able to capture the connecting planes in/out of ORD would work well.

For reference, my travel spend last year out of BTR (of mostly not my money) was about $40k, 90% to AA and 10% to DL. One of the primary reasons was that AA could one-stop every where I needed to go in Asia (in addition to other reasons discussed earlier), so I tried to consolidate there (which meant forcing some Europe flights to AA where DL would have actually been more convenient). UA really never offered anything worthwhile on those routes with everything going through IAH.

As a result, on domestic/personal travel (where UA would have been just fine), I still tried to keep with AA (primary) or DL (backup) where my miles are and where my best chance of upgrades are.

I think a UA flight from BTR to ORD changes that dynamic dramatically, since UA from ORD can do almost everything AA from DFW can. So, UA would stand not only to gain the revenue from the short flights, it would pick up revenue on the long haul flights, where right now it's not a valid competitor. Most people I know in BTR flying UA reliably are doing so because they are Houston transplants and still consider themselves hub-locked due to IAH.

This would pull (somewhat) from AA and DL, but if it pulls enough traffic from MSY or creates new travelers it will balance that to some degree.

Of course, if UA tries that route on a CRJ-200 or E-135/E-145, I'm going to stick with AA unless they really start dropping prices and I run out of every possible justifiable business excuse not to hop on the thing.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 1:49 pm
Posted by tigerinthebueche
Member since Oct 2010
38239 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 2:04 pm to
Only bad experience I ever had at BTR was an early morning flight to DFW cancelling due to not having a flight crew.
Picking up air freight at night can be challenging. Place ain’t staffed at night, so if you miss the flights arrival, your FRT is stuck till the next morning.
Not good with live or time critical shipments.
Posted by SM6
Georgia
Member since Jul 2008
8973 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 2:38 pm to
That all makes perfect sense. From an international standpoint getting UA to ORD and all of the connections to Asia and Europe on UA and the many Star Alliance airlines at ORD would be a boon. That would be a huge benefit to international travelers.

Just for fun I pulled the latest O&D data.

I would like to point out I just went to the Airport's website to get their annual traffic numbers and they haven't been updated since August. But its Baton Rouge, why should I be surprised that they approach this type of thing half-assedly.

Of BTRs 375K annual revenue passengers, 8.4% are on international itineraries. Canada and Mexico lead the way with 12 pax per day each. Third and fourth are Japan and the UK with 4 passengers per day. The list drops from there. I can pull the individual destinations if anyone cares.

What I left out is the passenger revenue component. These could be some high yield passengers or they could be tourists paying bottom dollar. The volumes are pretty low and I'm not sure the revenue premium is there to entice an airline to offer better connectivity to get it. If a few passengers want to pay top dollar, the airline is content sending them on a double connection, or forcing them to go to MSY for a single connecting.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 2:39 pm
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
33146 posts
Posted on 2/13/18 at 2:43 pm to
quote:

That all makes perfect sense. From an international standpoint getting UA to ORD and all of the connections to Asia and Europe on UA and the many Star Alliance airlines at ORD would be a boon. That would be a huge benefit to international travelers.


ORD makes the most sense. Particularly from UA.

I could see AA adding DCA as well.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 2:44 pm
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