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re: What are BTR’s (Baton Rouge airport) long-term plans to remain competitive and viable
Posted on 2/12/18 at 11:47 pm to dewster
Posted on 2/12/18 at 11:47 pm to dewster
AA already caught Delta. They started flying 700s and it paid off.
quote:
In 2017, American Airlines and Delta each flew approximately 38 percent of Baton Rouge customers. United accounted for 24 percent.
1
Posted on 2/12/18 at 11:50 pm to The Boat
quote:
AA already caught Delta. They started flying 700s and it paid off.
Good! Time for Delta and United to step up now.
quote:
Seems like most of the fliers on TD use Delta. Delta had the biggest market share at BTR by a long shot for a long time.
The frequent fliers seem to appreciate BTR a lot more than the people who almost never fly.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:08 am to Cosmo
quote:
It will never be more than that.
There are similar and even much smaller markets that have direct bargain flights to DEN, LAX, LAS, and various more boring places, on airlines like Spirit, Frontier and Allegiant.
Knoxville to Denver on Frontier for example: round trip for $200 isn't out of ordinary.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 12:09 am to McLemore
Knoxville is a bigger market than BTR
Posted on 2/13/18 at 6:41 am to AA77
quote:
BR isn't a big city nor is it a destination, the airport just needs to be able to get people to Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston.
quote:
BR isn't a big city nor is it a destination, the airport just needs to be able to get people to Atlanta, Dallas, and Houston.
This. The really bad thing about BTR is the location. You don't have to be very far south or east of BR to make flying out of MSY a time-saving alternative.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 7:38 am to The Boat
quote:
Seems like most of the fliers on TD use Delta. Delta had the biggest market share at BTR by a long shot for a long time.
i used to use delta almost exclusively. mostly when flying East. But , lately i've enjoyed the American flights more.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 7:41 am to Paul Allen
quote:
Knoxville is a bigger market than BTR
city of BR is a lot bigger and the statistical area is almost identical. are you factoring in MSY being so near to BTR? That's a fair point because Knoxville has no major airport nearby
Posted on 2/13/18 at 8:44 am to dewster
quote:
ETA: I didn't know there were this many frequent fliers on Tigerdroppings. Are most of us Delta loyalists?
I'm probably one of the few AA loyalists, at least since the abandonment of the CRJ-200/E-145 on the DFW-BTR route. Prior to that I typically used whichever was more convenient of AA or DL. I've never been much of a fan of connecting through IAH, and if I'm going to Houston I usually drive.
AA has also been running the BTR flights out of Terminal E at DFW (Which is on the East side of the airport). This has cut taxi times to next to nothing on most occasions, provided there's normal operations on the N/S runways.
Anyone with even low tier status is practically guaranteed the upgrade on the DFW-BTR leg (for now). Thanks Delta loyalists!
So, in summary:
1) No chance of CRJ-200 in/out of BTR
2) (from a prior note). Overnight storage of first few CRJ-700s for the morning flights is at BTR, so the AM flights have been pretty reliable. In addition, the 700's appear to be newer so less chance of a silly maintenance delay.
3) Favorable gate assignments at DFW for minimizing taxi time. The key advantage I feel ATL has over DFW is the problem of landing on the wrong side of the airport (such as any time the BTR flight was due to arrive at terminal B) - DFW has the elevated trams between the terminals that planes would have to taxi all the way around, compared to the subway at ATL.
4) Near guaranteed upgrade on the BTR-DFW or BTR-CLT segments.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 9:07 am to BRIllini07
BTR will not get Southwest. Southwest has gone on record saying that their growth opportunity is limited in the US, primarily to Hawaii. Most growth will come in the Latin Region (building up at FLL and HOU) and they will start Canada service once their new reservations system (Amadeus) is fully implemented. Currently they can not accept any booking in foreign currency.
Service to BTR would cannibalize existing demand at MSY. Southwest's success is based on the ability to serve O&D (origin and destination) demand on a nonstop basis, while connecting a portion of passengers beyond to fill up the remaining seats. Unfortunately the demand is not there.
A quick look at the BTS' DB1b O&D survey shows the following markets as the top destinations from BTR during the 4Q ending Q3 2017 (either nonstop or via connection).
All values are passengers per day, each way.
DFW 74
ATL 61
IAH 53
CLT 31
DCA 25
LAX 22
DEN 18
PHL 18
LGA 18
MCO 17
SFO 16
BOS 15
LAS 15
EWR 14
SEA 13
Keep in mind the smallest Southwest plane has 143 seats. Delta operates the largest aircraft (on a regular basis) a 110-seat 717 once daily to ATL.
BTR may have a metro area approaching 800,000 people, but what is their propensity to fly? Personal income is lower, and there is not the tourism aspect that MSY has to support capacity.
Service to BTR would cannibalize existing demand at MSY. Southwest's success is based on the ability to serve O&D (origin and destination) demand on a nonstop basis, while connecting a portion of passengers beyond to fill up the remaining seats. Unfortunately the demand is not there.
A quick look at the BTS' DB1b O&D survey shows the following markets as the top destinations from BTR during the 4Q ending Q3 2017 (either nonstop or via connection).
All values are passengers per day, each way.
DFW 74
ATL 61
IAH 53
CLT 31
DCA 25
LAX 22
DEN 18
PHL 18
LGA 18
MCO 17
SFO 16
BOS 15
LAS 15
EWR 14
SEA 13
Keep in mind the smallest Southwest plane has 143 seats. Delta operates the largest aircraft (on a regular basis) a 110-seat 717 once daily to ATL.
BTR may have a metro area approaching 800,000 people, but what is their propensity to fly? Personal income is lower, and there is not the tourism aspect that MSY has to support capacity.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 9:10 am
Posted on 2/13/18 at 9:17 am to SM6
For shits and giggles if anyone is interested.
95.8% of MSY's passengers are O&D, in other words starting or ending their trip at MSY. 4.2% of passengers at the airport are connecting through MSY (almost entirely on Southwest).
Of those 95.8% of O&D passengers, only 38.2% are originating (resident) in MSY, the remainder are visitors.
Contrast that with BTR where 54.2% of passengers are originating at BTR.
95.8% of MSY's passengers are O&D, in other words starting or ending their trip at MSY. 4.2% of passengers at the airport are connecting through MSY (almost entirely on Southwest).
Of those 95.8% of O&D passengers, only 38.2% are originating (resident) in MSY, the remainder are visitors.
Contrast that with BTR where 54.2% of passengers are originating at BTR.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 9:19 am to SM6
Interesting.
Do you have a link to the report?
Do you have a link to the report?
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 9:21 am
Posted on 2/13/18 at 9:22 am to dewster
quote:
Some people think that the very expensive airport revamp may be due to the demands made by a large tech company potentially locating here.
I wouldn't doubt that this could be used to appeal to said tech company, but the biggest drivers (from what I've heard) are the fact that the debt taken to build the original facility at the behest of US Air will be paid off in the next year. Also, the O&M costs of the train and the grossly over-sized facility are beginning to become prohibitive to the point that even with the new construction/debt, the rates and charges to the airlines will be the same if not a little lower for a much more appropriate and user friendly facility.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 9:24 am to dewster
Not a link per se, I have access through the data here at work via a BI tool I use. The source is DOT/BTS data which is all publicly available. Unfortunately the data in its flat file form is ridiculously cumbersome and user unfriendly.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 9:25 am to goofball
quote:
I don't like flying through ATL if I can help it.
I actually like Atlanta. I think it is very efficient. My comment was more that I have one and only one option.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 9:30 am to CaptainJ47
quote:
I actually like Atlanta. I think it is very efficient. My comment was more that I have one and only one option.
ATL is a nice airport. Another alternative would be nice though. JFK, DTW, MSP, SLC, etc.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 9:31 am
Posted on 2/13/18 at 10:05 am to SM6
quote:
DFW 74 ATL 61 IAH 53 CLT 31 DCA 25 LAX 22 DEN 18 PHL 18 LGA 18 MCO 17 SFO 16 BOS 15 LAS 15 EWR 14 SEA 13
I'm surprised DFW beats IAH as a destination. My gut feel would have been the oil company express between IAH and BTR for 1-day meetings would be the largest repetitive flight.
It's also interesting how much of an impact direct flights have (top 4 final destinations are the direct routes).
With that in mind, the information you would really need for how to improve BTR is both (a) how BTR is currently used, (b) Where are the people flying out of MSY with Baton Rouge zip codes flying?
For CLT it'd be interesting to see how much is the Albermarle influence vs. how much is academics who would really be better served direct to RDU than CLT.
Agree there's no reason for a 737 to routinely utilize BTR.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 10:24 am to SM6
With 18 to LGA and 14 to EWR I think that may be within striking distance of adding a route direct to JFK (catching the international gateway there).
If it looks like 32 people need to be in the area and use BTR no matter what. Throw in BR people currently using MSY to land in NY and international travel originating in BR that are better served using JFK vs. ATL or DFW and I think you end up with a fairly full daily Regional Jet.
If it looks like 32 people need to be in the area and use BTR no matter what. Throw in BR people currently using MSY to land in NY and international travel originating in BR that are better served using JFK vs. ATL or DFW and I think you end up with a fairly full daily Regional Jet.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 10:25 am to LaBR4
BTR should just move.
Posted on 2/13/18 at 10:29 am to BRIllini07
quote:
With 18 to LGA and 14 to EWR I think that may be within striking distance of adding a route direct to JFK (catching the international gateway there).
Seems like EWR or ORD would be a better shot, no?
Supposed to be a shortage of gates at JFK if I'm not mistaken. Neither OKC or BMA has non-stop to JFK, although I think BMA has one to LGA, which is more domestic focused.
This post was edited on 2/13/18 at 10:32 am
Posted on 2/13/18 at 10:30 am to CarRamrod
quote:
BTR should just move.
Where? Livingston Parish?
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