re: Vice President says U.S. expects Strait of Hormuz to be open ‘toll free’ long term

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People will argue whether this "deal" is a win or a loss, mainly viewed through their own lens. I put deal in quotes because, as of now, it is still basically a memorandum of understanding; even when signed in Switzerland, parts remain that are still to be negotiated over 60 days.

I see it functionally remarkably similar to the JCPOA each having advantages and disadvantages that could be argued. The one thing that is hard to argue is that this deal costs the US taxpayers many multiples of what the JCPOA cost.

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I mostly agree with this, but I think you’re being a little too careful with the framing here.

You say people will view the deal as a win or loss through their own lens, then immediately describe it as functionally very similar to the JCPOA, except with vastly higher costs to U.S. taxpayers.

That is a position. And unless I’m missing something, the position is that this was a loss, or at least a worse path to roughly the same destination.

If we ended up with something broadly comparable to the deal we already had, but only after war costs, military depletion, economic disruption, diplomatic damage, and taxpayer expense, then “win or loss depends on your lens” feels too soft.

Through your own description, it sounds like the U.S. paid more to get back to a version of the same basic framework.

So what am I missing? Why not just say that?

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but your actual argument seems stronger than your conclusion.

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without accomplishing a single thing we set out to you fricking retard

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Sometimes words can leave deeper scars than actions

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So what am I missing? Why not just say that?

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Two reasons, I was being intentionally overly diplomatic to encourage discussion and at the time I had not seen the exact verbiage of the MOU and as such did not want to get out over my skis.

This is purported to be the language:

1. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States, together with their allies in the current war, declare upon the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding an immediate and permanent end to the war on all fronts, including Lebanon, and undertake that from now on they will not launch any hostile action against each other, and will refrain from the threat or use of force against each other. The final agreement will confirm the provisions of this Article and the remaining Articles.
2. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States undertake to respect each other's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and to refrain from interfering in each other's internal affairs.
3. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States undertake to negotiate and reach a final agreement within a maximum period of 60 days, extendable by mutual consent.
4. Immediately upon the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding, the United States Lift the naval blockade and prevent any interference or obstruction against the Islamic Republic of Iran, and restore traffic within a maximum of 30 days to its full capacity; the traffic of ships shall be proportional to the pre-war volume of traffic on the part of the Islamic Republic of Iran. The United States also undertakes to withdraw its forces from the surrounding areas within 30 days after the final agreement.
5. Upon signing this Memorandum of Understanding, the Islamic Republic of Iran will immediately take steps to ensure that the movement of merchant ships from the Persian Gulf to the Sea of ??Oman and vice versa is resumed within 30 days to the pre-war volume, taking into account the need for the removal of technical obstacles and the neutralization of mines by Iran.
6. The United States undertakes, together with its regional partners, to create a comprehensive plan agreed upon by both parties for the rehabilitation and economic development of the Islamic Republic of Iran, While ensuring financing of at least $300 billion. The implementation mechanism of this plan, as part of the final agreement, will be formulated within 60 days.
7. The United States commits to ending, on a schedule to be agreed upon as part of the final agreement, all types of sanctions currently facing the Islamic Republic of Iran, including resolutions of the United Nations Security Council and the Board of Governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), and all unilateral U.S. sanctions, both primary and secondary.
8. The Islamic Republic of Iran reiterates that it will never produce nuclear weapons. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States have agreed that the fate of enriched material and the fate of all other mutually agreed nuclear-related issues, including Iran’s nuclear needs, will be adequately addressed in a final agreement; the final agreement will confirm the provisions of this Article.
9. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States agree that, pending a final agreement, they will maintain the status quo: Iran will maintain the status quo on its nuclear program, and the United States will not impose new sanctions on Iran or strengthen its forces in the region.
10. The United States undertakes that immediately after the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding, and until the date of the lifting of sanctions, the United States Treasury Department will issue waivers for exports of Iranian crude oil, petrochemical products and their derivatives, and all related services, including banking, insurance, transportation, and the like.
11. The United States undertakes that, in light of the progress of negotiations towards a final agreement, frozen or restricted funds and assets of the Islamic Republic of Iran will be released and made fully available. These funds, whether held in the master account or transferred, will be used for any final beneficiary payment determined by the Central Bank of the Islamic Republic of Iran and will be fully available for use. The United States undertakes to issue all necessary permits and licenses on this basis.
12. The Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States agree that an implementation mechanism will be established to oversee the successful implementation of and future commitment to the Final Agreement.
13. Following the signing of this Memorandum of Understanding, and upon receipt of assurances regarding the commencement of implementation of Articles 4, 5, 10, and 11 of this Memorandum of Understanding, and the continued implementation of these steps, the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States will enter into negotiations for a Final Agreement solely with respect to the remaining Articles.
14. The final agreement will be approved through a binding resolution of the UN Security Council.

X


If this language is correct, it is a horrible deal. Objectively worse than the JCPOA with a MUCH higher cost.

One of the unforgivable blunders is the country with the most significant conventional warfare capabilities on earth will look weak. It doesn't matter how strong you are if you are constantly being tried by weaker and having to prove your strength over and over and bear those costs.

Lots of bombs, missiles, and too many lives for beginning of the year status quo.

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If this language is correct, it is a horrible deal. Objectively worse than the JCPOA with a MUCH higher cost.

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Trump saw Obama and Jimmy Carter and said "I can bigly do worse!"

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I thought it was unfreezing of assets not giving like it’s reparations. Same thing Obama did…

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Nope. The $300B is completely separate from their frozen assets.

They are going to get their unfrozen assets and a $300B Investment Fund to help rebuild.

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One of the unforgivable blunders is the country with the most significant conventional warfare capabilities on earth will look weak.

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getting close to more winning than we can handle?

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impose our will

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You mean control or influence? /s

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Still waiting for an official release, but the longer that our administration stays quiet about something that should be a major win, the more suspicious I am.

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Trump tweeting out that the 300 Million in payments/"investment" to Iran being fake news was absolute gold. Couldn't write it better.

JohnnyKilroy NawlinsTiger9

You 2 Trumptards are ruining this thread. Answer me this. Who was in NYC when 9/11 happened, and second, who was at the Butler, PA, assassination attempt? The answer is Donald Trump. Like the arsonist always hangs around during the fire. This is why everyone tells you you're in a cult, MAGA cult.

Oh, wonderful. So we lost the war, the Iran regime is still in place, and we now have the toll free transits from before February 28 back. (And it'll probably be at least 3 months before most insurance companies allow boats to go through Hormuz.)

Not sure why you posted this on here rather than the poliboard. This is more of a poliboard type thread, and the poliboard sucks Trump's dick even more than this board does.