re: USW strike...** POSSIBLE END IN SIGHT **

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Most of those guys in those plants are far more concerned with changes to pensions or savings plans than any signing bonus or % raise.

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The level of savings by a vast majority is impressive sometimes. The openess when talking about retirement savings or strategy is often helpful.

Stupidity and egos tend to find situations that education and humblesness do not

Thats why it makes a difference.

Most incidents in plants require many levels of barriers to be consciously removed.

20% match is ridiculous.
Employees cant gut the profit margins of a company and expect the company to have the ability to research and grow; in turn enhancing said employees chance of long term sustainability within such company.
Lay offs are much worse than taking a generous 6-7% match and guaranteed 2-4% raise a year. Its unbelievable the amount of entitlement. Most people would kill for what the USW is shitting all over

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Most incidents in plants require many levels of barriers to be consciously removed.

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True, but there are plenty of examples (BP Texas City, the Deep South crane falling over in Texas, the workers burned to death in Beaumont) where lots of casualties were just innocent bystanders. Yes the root cause of the incidents were human factors. The people who happened to be in the area weren't taking shortcuts or being unsafe but were still affected.

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There were some I think but the funniest one is they essentially said it's unsafe to hire contractors. It's a thinly veiled attempt to force out contractors.

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I'll preface my statement by saying I'm in management (if that matters) but so much of what I've read in this thread is just blatantly wrong and comes from people that I assume haven't worked in the industry ever or not for a long time.

First: Arkla Missy I don't even know where to start so I'm just going to dismiss everything you said and not even respond.

Second: Outsiders would probably never be privy to this but 80% of the accidents that have caused fatalities in the past decade have been directly attributable to mistakes made by contractors (mostly unskilled and green).

Third: Embedded contractors are pretty much the hiring pool at large facilities for operations and mechanical so they are fairly sought after positions. It's like a dress rehearsal for the permanent job (turning blue) keep the best ditch the rest.

Fourth: The main safety issue being bargained is a fatigue clause that's set in stone, ie. the number of days a person can be forced to work in a row without 24 hours off and the number of hours someone can work without 8 hours off. I think the union wants 13 days and 16 hours

Fifth: The idea that the union people can't be fired for not doing their job. I've seen people regardless of seniority union and non-union up to unit supervisors get fired for safety violations, insubordination, and excessive absences. You bust a safety a procedure your arse is grass no matter who you are.

Sixth: The union always asks for crazy pay increases and insurance cost decreases every time and never get it. It always gets bargained down to somewhere between 2.5 and 3.5%. I've heard this isn't about pay or benefits but is strictly about fatigue and wanting many of the USW sites to go off pattern. This means they would be out of the loop during the next bargaining period because they signed a contract with a longer period than 3 years. This is not necessarily a bad thing because it gives more stability for a longer period of time and includes a me too clause which means you get the bumps in pay that the pattern sites get during the next bargaining period.


eta: this is strictly being driven by the national the locals want a deal and put all this to bed.

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How dare those evil O/G workers asking for a cost of living raiseif you left it at that, then I'd be with you 100%. It was the other drivel that lost you support.

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I don't really care about getting any support from the dumb asses on this board.

Yea, he mad...

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First: Arkla Missy I don't even know where to start so I'm just going to dismiss everything you said and not even respond.

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... I'm crushed ... CRUSHED!!!

... But you did respond ... and to me first!!

Eta - and the rest was tl;dr.

Any updates on Shell Norco?

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I don't believe the union is a necessary component to increase industrial safety. But let's assume I'm wrong and the union is necessary, the union has worked hard to make itself irrelevant in the eyes of their represented members by not consulting their membership before presenting terms in collective bargaining. When members criticize USW for it, they are silenced and shouted down to either step in line or zip their lip. A terribly managed union has significantly diluted bargaining power when negotiating with some of the most powerful companies on the planet that are very knowledgable about the discontent the represented members have with USW.

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This guy gets it. The issues I and most of the other operators at my plant have with USW have been well earned. They have both screwed us over and lied to us on contract negotiation issues more than once.