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Message
re: ULM Student Accused of Rape
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:19 am to ell_13
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:19 am to ell_13
quote:
So you're saying a rape victim will always hold some blame either because she was ignorant or she didn't do something sooner to prevent it? Always?
No. He's saying always be aware of your surroudings. Never trust anyone else with your well-being and do the most you can to avoid dangerous situations and dangerous people.
2
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:19 am to SabiDojo
quote:
I never said anything about why didn't she leave, fwiw.
I know
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:19 am to SabiDojo
quote:I didn't ask you for an opinion. I asked if you had the same defensive approach in threads where the girl came across as a liar.
I can't give an opinion on a hypothetical with such little detail.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:21 am to ell_13
quote:
Girls hangs out with guy and wants to be physical but no sex. He forces himself on her after she says no repeatedly. He admits to it and tells her not to report it. She does anyway to multiple people. Why is the question "how could she have prevented it"?
Any guy that "wants to be physical but no sex" is either a closet homosexual or a statistical anomaly. That women don't understand this eternal truth is part of the problem. Once you get a guy going he's going to continue to try until something happens to cool the situation down (he eventually just comes to terms with it, she leaves, she gets angry, etc).
quote:
Why is the question "how could she have prevented it"?
Because by not asking that questions you say it's okay to live in a fantasy world that says all guys are good, decent and always have metric fricktons of self-control. It also sets up a slippery slope of "the female is never wrong".
quote:
Do you also question the people who get mugged in the French Quarter at 9 PM?
Considering the crime rate there? frick, yes. Aside from work I don't go to the French Quarter specifically because it's gotten so bad. The last few times I've been anywhere in the Quarter at night I've had my head on a swivel and stayed in the more populated areas.
quote:
You're dancing around actually saying a victim is always partially responsible for being a victim.
No, I'm not. I'm specifically not saying that because it's not true. You're just frustrated because that's the argument you want to have but that's not where it's going.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:22 am to NoHoTiger
quote:Even the people you've known for years and consider to be friends? Would it be your fault if you got in a car with a long time friend who was drunk but said they weren't? Are you responsible for your injuries?
Never trust anyone else with your well-being and do the most you can to avoid dangerous situations and dangerous people.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:22 am to Salmon
quote:
Sabi is being completely reasonable with his points
you were being purposely obtuse of the implication of the question "why didn't she leave?"
All I said is that investigators shouldn't be barred from asking certain questions. You actually gave a perfectly reasonable response. What if the answer to that question gives investigators knowledge that they can pass on to potential future victims that will help them avoid becoming victims? Understanding the mentality of victims is valuable knowledge to possess.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:24 am to Salmon
I'd say texts from him apologizing and asking her to not report are pretty damning
I agree. But it's not the slam dunk some in this thread make it out to be. If you knew you hadn't raped a girl but she was accusing you of doing it, wouldn't asking her not to put you through the embarrassing ordeal seem like a natural request. Especially if a girl you had known a long time?
I agree. But it's not the slam dunk some in this thread make it out to be. If you knew you hadn't raped a girl but she was accusing you of doing it, wouldn't asking her not to put you through the embarrassing ordeal seem like a natural request. Especially if a girl you had known a long time?
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:24 am to upgrayedd
quote:That's not what you said. You also called it a dumb question.
All I said is that investigators shouldn't be barred from asking certain questions.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:25 am to NoHoTiger
quote:
Never trust anyone else with your well-being and do the most you can to avoid dangerous situations and dangerous people.
"Don't hang out and watch movies with old high school friends!"
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:26 am to upgrayedd
quote:
All I said is that investigators shouldn't be barred from asking certain questions.
I'm sure investigators will ask the question and they should
We are not investigators. This is the OT. We are a bunch of dudes that don't trust women. I know what the question implies
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:26 am to Bard
quote:First, I didn't say the guy wanted that. Second, that doesn't give him the right to rape her.
Any guy that "wants to be physical but no sex" is either a closet homosexual or a statistical anomaly.
quote:Wow. And here it is. All women are partially to blame for being raped. They should all know that every man will try to rape them.
That women don't understand this eternal truth is part of the problem.
This post was edited on 11/17/17 at 10:27 am
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:28 am to ell_13
quote:
You also called it a dumb question.
You called it a dumb question, not me.
quote:
Do you not see why that's a dumb fricking question?
quote:
That's not what you said
That's exactly what I said
quote:
This is my biggest gripe when it comes to rape allegations. No one is allowed to question the woman and if you do you're "blaming her"
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:30 am to Salmon
quote:
We are not investigators. This is the OT. We are a bunch of dudes that don't trust women.
It's still extremely valuable knowledge to possess and disseminate.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:31 am to upgrayedd
I don't think you know what "exactly" means. You said nothing about investigators.
And you implied that you agreed it was a dumb question:
And you implied that you agreed it was a dumb question:
quote:
Do you not see why that's a dumb fricking question? Dumb question =/= victim blaming
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:32 am to upgrayedd
quote:
It's still extremely valuable knowledge to possess and disseminate.
It is.
I also think in most cases the answer is obvious.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:33 am to ell_13
quote:
I don't think you know what "exactly" means. You said nothing about investigators.
"No one" is all encompassing
quote:
And you implied that you agreed it was a dumb question
You rely heavily on implications to support all your weak arguments.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:33 am to Bard
Do you also question the people who get mugged in the French Quarter at 9 PM?
The fallacy in this is you can't get consensually mugged. But you can consensually have sex with someone. In a he said/she said situation sex can occur. Trying to determine whether it was coercive or not can get tricky. As a rule, tourists don't give consent to get hit over the head with a brick and their wallets lifted. It's a false equivalency.
The fallacy in this is you can't get consensually mugged. But you can consensually have sex with someone. In a he said/she said situation sex can occur. Trying to determine whether it was coercive or not can get tricky. As a rule, tourists don't give consent to get hit over the head with a brick and their wallets lifted. It's a false equivalency.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:35 am to Salmon
quote:
I also think in most cases the answer is obvious.
Perhaps, but I don't think we should assume anything, especially during a rape investigation.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:37 am to SoFla Tideroller
quote:What about getting in the car with a drunk driver who convincingly tells you he isn't drunk? Is that a false equivalency? Or does that analogy work better for you?
The fallacy in this is you can't get consensually mugged.
Posted on 11/17/17 at 10:38 am to upgrayedd
quote:
but I don't think we should assume anything, especially during a rape investigation.
I mean...there are basically only 2 real answers to the question
1) She didn't leave because the sex was consenual
or
2) She didn't leave because she trusted that the guy would stop at some point and wouldn't force himself on her
From what is presented in the OP, about her reporting it to multiple people/counselor relatively quickly and his apparent texts, scenario 1 seems like the lesser of the 2 scenarios
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