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re: The largest land invasion in military history commenced on this day 85 years ago...

Posted on 6/22/26 at 6:46 pm to
Posted by mailman85
Kentucky
Member since Mar 2013
429 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 6:46 pm to
LINK

Really puts the scale of deaths in perspective.
This post was edited on 6/22/26 at 6:48 pm
Posted by deltadummy
Member since Mar 2025
2905 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 6:52 pm to
If you have one, what is your favorite podcast on that?
Posted by deltadummy
Member since Mar 2025
2905 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 6:53 pm to
Great link.
Posted by The Boat
Member since Oct 2008
178343 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 6:54 pm to
quote:

If Hitler launches Barbarossa in early May, who knows how the war goes. Those 5 weeks were key.

Thanks, il Duce
Posted by TigerMond84
Member since Dec 2014
557 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 6:58 pm to
Dan Carlin has a magnificent podcast on the eastern front. Ghosts of the Ostfront.
Posted by deltadummy
Member since Mar 2025
2905 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 7:07 pm to
Yeah, I've listened to that one. Should've said "aside from DC". That is a great one, but most of his are.
Posted by Lawyered
The Sip
Member since Oct 2016
38775 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 7:07 pm to
The logistics of that had to be such a nightmare
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74628 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 7:14 pm to
quote:

The logistics of that had to be such a nightmare

It was worse than you can even imagine. I can’t remember the exact breakdown, but a huge portion of the vehicles (everything from tanks to lorries) the Germans did have were ones they’d captured from other countries. Imagine the headache from spare parts alone.

A other thing was how to keep the horses alive. As I said earlier, 119 of the 153 German divisions relied on horses for transportation. In total, the Wehrmacht had roughly 750,000 horses on the Eastern Front when they invaded the USSR. The daily requirement to keep these horses fed was approximately 9,000 tons of hay.
This post was edited on 6/22/26 at 7:29 pm
Posted by mailman85
Kentucky
Member since Mar 2013
429 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 8:41 pm to
(no message)
This post was edited on 6/22/26 at 8:44 pm
Posted by sledgehammer
SWLA
Member since Oct 2020
7854 posts
Posted on 6/22/26 at 8:50 pm to
quote:

In total, the Wehrmacht had roughly 750,000 horses on the Eastern Front when they invaded the USSR
I imagine a good portion of those horses got eaten the winter of ‘41 around Moscow and ‘42 around Stalingrad. Who knows if any of those horses survived the war?
Posted by Lonnie Utah
Utah!
Member since Jul 2012
35261 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 5:30 am to
quote:

If Hitler launches Barbarossa in early May, who knows how the war goes. Those 5 weeks were key.


Just like North Africa, Germany had to clean up Mussolini's mess in the Balkins and Greece. That's where those 5 weeks went. Nazi troops got within 20-25 miles of downtown Moscow at their greatest advance. It is totally plausible that given 5 more weeks, the could have captured Moscow and cut off the head of the snake.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
38507 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 6:37 am to
Maybe. German supply lines were stretched pretty thin even then. But I wonder if those 5 weeks are able to interrupt the Soviets from relocating all of their manufacturing East of the Urals. That was probably the most underappreciated action of the war.

But, I think if Barbarossa is launched in early May, Hitler might have gotten Moscow and Stalingrad is less bloody. But Stalingrad was always going to be a problem for the Germans just because of location and distance
Posted by TigersnJeeps
FL Panhandle
Member since Jan 2021
2924 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 6:41 am to
Years ago I read a book on the German industrial/economic policies in WWII.

They didn't even go to a full war-time economy until late in the war.
Posted by sledgehammer
SWLA
Member since Oct 2020
7854 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 6:43 am to
(no message)
Posted by sledgehammer
SWLA
Member since Oct 2020
7854 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 6:52 am to
quote:

German supply lines were stretched pretty thin even then.
Could Germany have done anything to strengthen their supply lines though? You have
1. Distance —-You’re getting farther from Germany every day.
2. Trucks. —-Germany was using a lot of trucks from conquered nations such as France. Like someone stated above, finding parts once a truck became broken down was probably next to impossible
3. Stalins scorched earth policy. —-Germany literally had to bring everything they’d need because you couldn’t salvage any food, clothing, shelter, material going forward. You can forget about using railroads too. Right?
4. Roads ——most of the roads weren’t paved so the roads turned to sticky mud in the fall and froze solid in the winter. That isn’t ideal in the least.

The logistics of getting supplies to the front in a perfect situation is tough, but the reasons I stated make it almost impossible to adequately supply 3 great army groups.
Posted by Darth_Vader
A galaxy far, far away
Member since Dec 2011
74628 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 7:11 am to
quote:

But, I think if Barbarossa is launched in early May, Hitler might have gotten Moscow and Stalingrad is less bloody. But Stalingrad was always going to be a problem for the Germans just because of location and distance


Had Hitler got Moscow in 41, there’s a chance he would not have had to try to take Stalingrad in 42. Keep in mind that Stalingrad wasn’t even a target of Barbarossa. It wasn’t until Barbarossa failed in 41, and the Germans had to come up with a campaign for 42, that the Germans even thought about Stalingrad. I say that because had Moscow fallen in 1941, there’s a decent chance Stalin might have been deposed and whatever was left of the Soviet government, which would have fled east once it was clear Moscow could not be held, would sue for peace in 41.
This post was edited on 6/23/26 at 7:28 am
Posted by TejasHorn
High Plains Driftin'
Member since Mar 2007
11822 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 7:57 am to
The only chance the Germans had was to turn the population to their favor.. like in Ukraine when they first arrived. A better way of life. The Roman model to some degree.

Of course that was short lived because they were nazis after all.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
43074 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 8:38 am to
quote:

Maybe. German supply lines were stretched pretty thin even then. But I wonder if those 5 weeks are able to interrupt the Soviets from relocating all of their manufacturing East of the Urals. That was probably the most underappreciated action of the war.


Remember the US didn’t directly get into the war until Dec 7, 1941. If Germany had attacked in early May and not in June 22nd. would Russia have been a lot worse off fighting an extra five weeks without the US? If Germany took Moscow would the US have gotten involved before Pearl?

There are a lot of what ifs.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45996 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 8:44 am to
quote:

June 22, 1941.

Operation Barbarossa. Nazi Germany's invasion of the Soviet Union featured between 3.5-3.8 million men attacking along a front that stretched from 1,800 miles from north to south. 153 German divisions, grouped into three separate army groups, were backed by 3,600 tanks and some 600,000 motor vehicles.


It probably would have succeeded if Hitler had not delayed the start of the invasion in order to keep the British out of Yugoslavia. Also probably would have succeeded if Hitler had let Army Group Center bypass Kyiv and head straight for Moscow.
Posted by tide06
Member since Oct 2011
24693 posts
Posted on 6/23/26 at 9:02 am to
quote:

From June 22, 1941 to VE day on May 8, 1945 (a period of just under 4 years) the Soviets had approximately 1500 KIA every...single...day (and about double that of civilians). Now, Stalin did some of that and blamed it on Hitler, but still.

During WW2 the US fielded about 90 field divisions.

We faced about 60 German divisions on the western front.

At the end of the war the red army had over 500.

The idea we could’ve easily just “kept going” at a time when we still had to knock out the Japanese via what we thought would involve a ground invasion is wild to me.

Could we have won? Eventually, assuming we used nuclear weapons and fought a total war against the enemy using strategic bombers to wipe out transportation, oil and manufacturing.

It would’ve been war on a scale we never came close to facing having to fight an offensive war against a nation that would’ve outnumbered us massively.
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