- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: The impending DEF shortage and why it's important
Posted on 6/20/22 at 12:57 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 6/20/22 at 12:57 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
From a real world business standpoint, there is no benefit from reduced emissions. The only benefit is from a fantasy “feel good” standpoint.
You get your environmental chemistry degree in the warehouse?
0
Posted on 6/20/22 at 12:57 pm to EarlyCuyler3
quote:
That ignores the reduced emissions as well.
Gonna be alot of reduced emmissions when we run out of def
Posted on 6/20/22 at 12:59 pm to HooDooWitch
quote:
you can have several gallons of piss ready to go.
Piss Pots to make a come back.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:01 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
these systems are extremely complicated and downright fragile. They break.. a lot. And the cost to repair is quite high.
I can confirm this firsthand. And the system can still be working but one of the sensors fail and it's soon to be de-rated and an expensive trip/tow to the shop where you wait 2-9 months for parts. Not anymore though...
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:01 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
From a real world business standpoint, there is no benefit from reduced emissions. The only benefit is from a fantasy “feel good” standpoint.
Then saying there is no financial benefit to my company would have been more accurate than what you originally said
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:01 pm to diat150
Diesel engines don't even give off greenhouse gases. It burns clean, the black 'rolling coal' is solid particulate soot, not gas. DEF cleans that stuff, which is just ash that disperses and settles in the ground. DEF doesn't actually clean emissions, just makes it prettier so you think it does
This post was edited on 6/20/22 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:02 pm to goofball
There is no shortage. Urea is made in the United States. One plant is in Waggaman. Cornerstone Chemical. They also make ammonia there. No need to rely on Russia for fertilizer either. We can do it all here. DEF for trucks and cars is 32%. For ships and tugs 40%. Urine and urea are not the same. Chicken shite has a high urea content though. Without DEF, you’d have trucks billowing smoke from the stacks again as you used to have with trains. It’s for emissions. Not performance.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:04 pm to Popths
quote:
Without DEF, you’d have trucks billowing smoke from the stacks again as you used to have with trains. It’s for emissions. Not performance.
That's incorrect. The DPF (particulate filter) is for the smoke, DEF is for NOX emissions.
And to add... my deleted diesel RV does not blow black smoke at all.
This post was edited on 6/20/22 at 1:06 pm
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:09 pm to BoostAddict
18 wheelers weren't constantly blowing black smoke before 10 years ago. Unless it's just a shitty trucker, you control it entirely from over revving. Unless there's just a really steep hill or a quick emergency type situation it didn't happen often. It wasn't really a problem
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:11 pm to BoostAddict
quote:
I can confirm this firsthand. And the system can still be working but one of the sensors fail and it's soon to be de-rated and an expensive trip/tow to the shop where you wait 2-9 months for parts. Not anymore though...
Another thing to consider is is downtime. When a trucking company’s trucks or a mine’s machines are not running, they’re not just sitting there not making money, they’re sitting there costing them money. Downing a single large wheel loader or dozer can cost thousands per day. I’m sure the losses from downtime for a trucking company are likewise pretty high.
Downtime has to be factored in when talking about things like cost and benefits.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:13 pm to Darth_Vader
Def shortage would absolutely cripple the supply chain
Unfortunately, every truck. That is commerical is def fitted,. Fwd regulations,. So it effects the whole industry. It happens, there will be major shortages and possible famine.
Unfortunately, every truck. That is commerical is def fitted,. Fwd regulations,. So it effects the whole industry. It happens, there will be major shortages and possible famine.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:15 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
And in case you're wondering what exactly DEF does, that's easy. It does absolutely nothing.
That's not true. DEF does do something. It frickS up your maintenance budget.
Volvo and Caterpillar loaders are basically useless, thanks to the compounding failures caused by the DEF system.
We call techs on site to diagnose and service issues with the DEF system more often than for all other issues combined.
And frankly, the average American is too dumb to understand how much their life quality hinges on a functional supply chain powered by on-demand logistics. Issues caused by DEF shortage will go right the frick over their heads.
In short, we are fricked.
This post was edited on 6/20/22 at 1:17 pm
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:16 pm to wadewilson
Yep. You’re preaching to the choir here.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:19 pm to Horsemeat
quote:
It does - the system derates the engine until refilled, then won't turn on at all without it.
Yep. Engine derates, game over. Truck ain't moving.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:22 pm to BuckyCheese
I’m on a ship right now with Tier 4 GE’s. Absolute pieces of trash
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:24 pm to Oates Mustache
quote:
you own a car or truck that uses DEF, the system won't let it start without the tank being refilled. Not sure if that applies to big rigs too.
There's a way around it...
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:24 pm to EarlyCuyler3
Actually I think someone has done a study on how much it costs and emissions to create the DEF, the packaging, transportation, and the costs to manufacture all the extra exhaust hardware on the engines and it is no benefit at all once these costs are accounted for.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:24 pm to wadewilson
What cracks me up is we have a handful of Google Warriors who wouldn’t know DEF if you poured it over their heads trying to argue the benefits of it. Once even cited a “5% increase in fuel efficiency”.
I’ll let you testify, you know and work with DEF machines and/or trucks. You tell me. Is having these Tier-4 emissions systems and their 5% increase in fuel efficiency worth the added expense of (1) DEF (2) maintenance (3) repairs and (4) downtime? Or does factors 1-4 completely erase that 5% fuel efficiency?
I’ll let you testify, you know and work with DEF machines and/or trucks. You tell me. Is having these Tier-4 emissions systems and their 5% increase in fuel efficiency worth the added expense of (1) DEF (2) maintenance (3) repairs and (4) downtime? Or does factors 1-4 completely erase that 5% fuel efficiency?
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:27 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
The OEMs say that they’ve been able to increase fuel mileage by about five percent using SCR/urea.
Then along comes a regen and lowers the mileage by 10%.
Several years later a $3,400.00 or so DPF replacement bc they don't last forever. Unless it craps out while under warranty, I will be deleting mine when it dies. Same goes for the SCR too.
Posted on 6/20/22 at 1:30 pm to td1
I bet if you go down to Mexico or Guatemala, you'll find some Jose that has found a way to circumvent this problem. We just need to do that.
Page 4 of 11
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News