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re: The “Dark Forest” theory to explain no evidence of extraterrestrial life

Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:56 pm to
Posted by Tigris
Cloud Cuckoo Land
Member since Jul 2005
13078 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:56 pm to
quote:

So we are really dumb for sending out probes and radio waves trying to talk to aliens.


Stephen Hawking said exactly the same thing years ago. And of course he's right. When an advanced civilization meets a backwards one the backwards civilization always suffers. And we're definitely not an advanced civilization.
Posted by eatpie
Kentucky
Member since Aug 2018
1576 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:56 pm to
I believe the reality is we, and Earth, are not as special as we think we are. Assuming advanced alien species exist, there is no logical reason they would visit us. They'd simply send probes to collect or relay whatever information they are interested in.

There is also an interesting theory we (humans) were "seeded" on Earth. If the goal is to extend humanity, sending out "viral seeds" by the billions to eventually settle on appropriate planets. These viral seeds would either start life, or "infect" existing simple life forms to kickstart evolution. Genetic engineering could guarantee complex lifeforms if given sufficient time and conditions. This might explain how humans share 60%+ DNA with bananas, and other living things.

Once we evolve to a certain level, we'll either be gifted with certain knowledge or we're genetically predisposed to learn it. Considering the behaviors passed along generations of even insects, like Monarch butterflies, who travel thousands of miles over several generations, with each generation somehow knowing what their generation is expected to do, this doesn't seem out of the question.
Posted by Chucktown_Badger
The banks of the Ashley River
Member since May 2013
35895 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

Isn't our assumption that any alien civilization that would reach the stage we have reached would be "sending out signals" at this stage of technology whether or not it is done deliberately to announce themselves to other civilizations?

In other words, would it really be possible to reach our stage of civilization and actually keep yourself in a "dark forest" during the entire time of your progress there and beyond?


Correct. Any highly advanced civilization would be able to identify life on earth very easily through a bunch of different ways, including heat and light signatures, the massive amounts of radio signals being generated every day, gases in the atmosphere that only exist where life is present, etc. To suggest there would be no way to find us if we weren't broadcasting "let's be friends" into the ether is ridiculous.

The issue is simply the vastness of space. If our message takes a 25,000 years to reach an advanced civilization, their response will take 25,000 years to get back to us.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
467197 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 12:58 pm to
The issue also is that it would take so long for these signals to get out, especially with the additional time of travel, that it wouldn't be logical or efficient to try to find us (or any other broadcasting species).
Posted by Proximo
Member since Aug 2011
22105 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:01 pm to
quote:

The issue is simply the vastness of space. If our message takes a 25,000 years to reach an advanced civilization, their response will take 25,000 years to get back to us.

You’re shorting this

on the order of millions / billions of years
Posted by DarthRebel
Tier Five is Alive
Member since Feb 2013
25008 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:02 pm to
Our earliest messages have only traveled around 105 light years, and those were just local radio signals and not directed messages.

That means the earliest signals have only reached about 14,000 to 28,000 stars. There is a 100% chance of an Earth like planet within that sphere, but that does not mean advanced. We have not heard a peep from anyone local, so it is safe to assume they are not out there to hear us either.

We are not alone, but we are not near anyone either.
Posted by GRTiger
On a roof eating alligator pie
Member since Dec 2008
69159 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:04 pm to
I can't get behind that one. We'd still see signatures. Any civilizations that can get to us likely also have mastered Dyson sphere technology or other means of maximizing energy. It also requiras the assumption that alien life is prospering at the same time as we are. In the timeline of the universe that seems unlikely to me. More likely there are remnants of long dead civilizations somewhere out there that will be hard to detect for us.
Posted by Chucktown_Badger
The banks of the Ashley River
Member since May 2013
35895 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:04 pm to
quote:

There have been 3 or 4 planets identified that are similar to earth like Kepler-452 which is 60% larger than Earth and over 1000 light years away.


Kepler-452 is a star, not a planet.

quote:

Kepler-452 is a G-type subgiant star located about 1,810 light-years away from Earth[2] in the Cygnus constellation.[7] Although similar in temperature to the Sun, it is 20% brighter, 3.7% more massive and 11% larger.[8][9] Alongside this, the star is approximately six billion years old and possesses a high metallicity.[5]
Posted by Chucktown_Badger
The banks of the Ashley River
Member since May 2013
35895 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:09 pm to
quote:

You’re shorting this

on the order of millions / billions of years


I was essentially thinking within our own portion of the galaxy, which is ~100k light years across.
Posted by SLCGumpFB25
SLC
Member since Jun 2025
991 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:13 pm to
quote:

We have not heard a peep from anyone local, so it is safe to assume they are not out there to hear us either.


Bruh, the abductions. They're here.
Posted by BruslyTiger
Waiting on 420...
Member since Oct 2003
4762 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:16 pm to
quote:

radio signals propagate away from the planet and could be detected by other sapient species of equal or greater technological advancement. Given the vastness of any given galaxy and the limitations of light speed, a signal isolated amongst the billions of vastly stronger EMI given off by celestial objects, would take hundreds to millions of years to reach anyone that could intercept.


quote:

Radio signals from Earth have traveled roughly 100 to 200 light-years from our planet, forming a sphere around us, though most signals are too faint to be detected beyond a few light-years. The powerful military radar transmissions from the Cold War are strong enough to be potentially detected up to hundreds of light-years away. However, the majority of the signals from commercial broadcasts and everyday devices are extremely weak and decay into background noise over much shorter distances.
Posted by Proximo
Member since Aug 2011
22105 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

I was essentially thinking within our own portion of the galaxy, which is ~100k light years across.

I hear you. On the cosmological timeline, I think we would’ve seen those by now unless they developed within that short time period

I think more likely, since we haven’t seen them yet, there isn’t anything that close
Posted by Clyde Tipton
Planet Earth
Member since Dec 2007
40594 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:36 pm to
quote:

So we are really dumb for sending out probes and radio waves trying to talk to aliens.



That's how you get one of these bad boys custom made for Hitler.

Posted by XenScott
Pensacola
Member since Oct 2016
4025 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:43 pm to
One day we will encounter alien life but it won't be what you think. The greatest deception in human history.
Posted by BPTiger
Atlanta
Member since Oct 2011
6053 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 1:52 pm to
quote:

It’s extremely likely another alien civilization has noticed us by now if aliens exist, which is highly likely.


We started experimentation with radio waves less than 150 years ago. With regard to a planet exhibiting intelligent life there was nothing unique about earth amongst the trillions of planets out there. At best there has been a 150 year window for intelligent life to find us. 150 years of the 14.5 billion years.
Posted by SantaFe
Baton Rouge
Member since Apr 2019
7649 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 2:11 pm to
An advanced space faring civilization would not be using radio for their communications. Do you still use the telegraph to communicate?


Radio is a poor way to communicate across the vastness of the galaxy .It weakens over large distances ( inverse square law ) and has to compete with other large natural powerful radio sources.

An advanced civilization who can travel faster than light, who can replicate energy into any type of matter, who can teleport beings over certain distances , would really not be interested in Earth . It would be similar to those who live in NYC being interested in what’s going on in Hessmer.

If anything they have declared Earth off limits and a quarantine planet because it is just too dangerous.
Posted by m2pro
Member since Nov 2008
29696 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 2:13 pm to
The earth will endure several near extinction level events before our word gets out anyway to anyone nearby enough to catch the signal.

We have much scarier things to worry about than the foolishness of trying to make contact with whatever random aliens.
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
94824 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 2:19 pm to
Nonsense. During the initial phase of technological development, you would just broadcast radio-waves everywhere. You would have to be conscious of an alien threat and have the wherewithal to then conceal your broadcasts.

The Fermi Paradox/Great Filter is the best, most Occam's Razor-friendly explanation of why we haven't made significant contact, with the second most likely is that we are being observed by some sort of galactic authority who keeps (most) other aliens from coming in and meddling until we're ready.

"Dark Forest" is one of those reverse engineered theories that does not quite pass muster when you break it down critically.
Posted by LSU-MNCBABY
Knightsgate
Member since Jan 2004
25163 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 2:20 pm to
quote:

Dinos might still be ruling the earth


Dinos are fake and the story was invented to cover up the existence of dragons.

Once you get this deep into the conspiracy theories let’s reconvene
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
46821 posts
Posted on 9/2/25 at 2:57 pm to
quote:

An advanced civilization who can travel faster than light, who can replicate energy into any type of matter, who can teleport beings over certain distances , would really not be interested in Earth
pure speculation. It’s much more likely that it is not possible to do any of those things
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