re: The civil suits on the Baldwin shooting are going to be EPIC!

quote:

---

but whereas some here are advocating for more hands being involved in on-set gun safety, I’m advocating for fewer.

---

Moi aussi

quote:

---

Such as, dissolving police departments instead of the rational thing, look at how to improve them.

---

It was an extreme analogy, an engineer’s perspective if you will. Its purpose was to demonstrate that the degree to which we overhaul a system shouldn’t be based on how poorly one negligent entity followed its rules. I regret using it because it was beside my point and is obviously triggering.

quote:

---

Anytime there is negligence, you gotta find a way to do better.

---

If you’re saying you have to create a better system, I half agree. When accidents happen, there are two options: A. Change the system B. Hold the individual who violated the system accountable

That being said, I don’t know this system, and if it’s common to leave guns unlocked and unsupervised on a cart, I agree with you that this system needs to be changed; again, just not by having everyone and anyone on the set handling and making judgement calls on a firearm.

quote:

---

and if it’s common to leave guns unlocked and unsupervised on a cart, I agree with you that this system needs to be changed

---

Its just that every profession that uses firearms has straight forward protocols that are fairly strictly adhered to.

Two eyes on a round are better than one. Set people examine, load and tag gun. Have it reviewed again before using, take tag off and use. Basically transferring safety measures from other realms.

I don't think it's impractical to have people who use firearms on a set to understand basic safety, this is a requirement in every other profession. This is what Scruffy alluded to earlier, it seems the acting profession is the only one where the shooter is excluded from any safety considerations.

I'm not sure why that's being controversial here.

quote:

---

I read last night some productions don't even use blanks anymore. They edit in the muzzle flashes later with cgi.

---

A lot of big budget productions do this. It looks like shite but it's obviously much safer.

here is a video about fixing the cgi in John Wick

quote:

---

It's literally not their jobs and you don't want non-experts to be making judgment calls that the experts are paid for.

---

It is not a field that requires expertise. At least not at the level of making good sure there aren’t any live rounds even available to be loaded into the weapon.

quote:

---

Also you're creating utter and absolute chaos by imposing this duty on any random person on set, which increases the likelihood of mishandling and miscommunication, which severely increases the chance of an issue.

---

Or, there could just not be any live ammo around at all.

quote:

---

He’s a decent guy who lives with that tragedy every day.

---

I know him, too. He's a very good guy.

quote:

---

They don’t decrease the number of people involved to improve outcomes in medical care.

They add people.

More eyes equals less chances that something is missed.

---

Yep, a simple glance.

I'm actually shocked some dumbassses here think it's totally impossible for an actor to be able to determine a blank from a live round in a few seconds.

In every other profession, its the shooters responsibility to know what is in the firearm before pulling the trigger. Relying an some marginal prop people is no excuse, nor is it rational.

quote:

---

Was it an actual bullet that killed the cinematographer, or was it a projectile from a blank?

---

Wondering this as well on top of why would they have live rounds loaded in gun in first place. If modifying live rounds to use as dummy rounds for realism with revolvers I think I would have used someone with more experience as armorer than just having one recent movie experience in position regardless of who father is. I also would have made sure after all the chaos with union crew leaving, coming back, and forced off that gun or other safety situations were not rushed in any manner. That’s a situation she might not have been prepared for with just one prior movie in position especially if AD pushing to get things done quickly. Also not sure if AD is the one to hand the gun to actors in first place.

I did read the following which may be causing some confusion- “…in the film industry "live” can mean any sort of round loaded in a gun even including a blank.”

I reread article on Brandon Lee’s death and that was caused by using improvised live rounds as dummy rounds which had powdered charge removed but not the primers which was enough to separate bullet from casing and also partially into barrel during a prior scene. The gun wasn’t cleared after, and in a scene filmed later a blank round used (primer and powdered charge but no bullet) forced the bullet out and hit Lee.

Jon-Erik Hexum was killed by a blank round from the wadding and force of blank round with barrel held right up against his temple playing Russian roulette when he got bored during a delay in filming.

On the poli board.

quote:

---

Baldwin shot and killed Halyna Hutchins, whose husband Matthew Hutchins just happens to be an attorney for DC powerhouse law firm Latham & Watkins - a law firm that represented the Clintons.

---

quote:

---

In every other profession, its the shooters responsibility to know what is in the firearm before pulling the trigger. Relying an some marginal prop people is no excuse, nor is it rational.

---

I don’t think it’s crazy to add the actor but I think that having a very low level final check probably does not add much safety but creates some extra Monday morning quarterbacking.

Putting aside Baldwin as the guy also running the show… if you pass into an area where live rounds are banned, have multiple experts inspect and clear the gun, and then dont aim at people’s faces - to some degree it’s window dressing to have some actor who’s relatively unfamiliar with guns checking. It adds more false security than real security in the system if talking open and honestly about the skills around a set.

There are plenty of places we trust the systems in place because they are so rigid and we are so far from experts. I’ll point again to it being 30 years since the last Hollywood gun death. We’d be celebrating that level of safety in any gun ownership pool that didn’t have a liberal slant like Hollywood attached.