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Started By
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re: Self defense or manslaughter. Video of shooting after road rage incident
Posted on 9/9/16 at 5:39 pm to molsusports
Posted on 9/9/16 at 5:39 pm to molsusports
quote:
Why? Seriously, why?
The moment the attacker decided to assault someone with a deadly weapon, he decided the outcome, in my opinion. The victim should never be required to have good faith that they will not be killed if they use less violence. That falls to the attacker, as it should.
quote:
Being forced to consider a lower level of violence when your life is not in imminent danger (second and third shots) and when it costs someone else their life seems like a minimum standard for a civilized society.
This is typically something people who have very little training and experience with violence fall into.
quote:
Let's take for granted that I would reverse my opinion if it could be conclusively shown the shot man was fatally wounded by the first shot - so lets please not waste time debating something other than the principle I think we disagree upon.
I don't know why you draw your line there, but it's not particularly important to the discussion, so I'm fine with that.
quote:
What we appear to disagree upon is whether or not you are entitled to execute someone if they substantially threaten you. A third party was trying to physically restrain him from the additional shots - so there was enough restraint and time for a different outcome.
Have you ever been in a fight? I don't mean a fight in high school, or a scuffle at the bar. I mean a fight where your opponent is trying to kill you.
1
Posted on 9/9/16 at 5:45 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
The moment the attacker decided to assault someone with a deadly weapon, he decided the outcome, in my opinion.
I don't think your opinion makes any sense. Violence and force are a continuum. To justify using lethal force you have to be in obvious and immediate danger of your own life being ended.
The wiggle room for that claim pretty well disappears IMO when you have time to go from a defensive posture in your car to getting up to fire additional shots while a third party tries to prevent this.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 5:54 pm to molsusports
quote:
I don't think your opinion makes any sense.
Ask any questions that will help clarify it for you.
quote:
Violence and force are a continuum. To justify using lethal force you have to be in obvious and immediate danger of your own life being ended.
This is not true.
quote:
The wiggle room for that claim pretty well disappears IMO when you have time to go from a defensive posture in your car to getting up to fire additional shots while a third party tries to prevent this.
That's fine. You can have that opinion.
Again, what is your experience with this type of situation?
A third party is mostly irrelevant, and more than likely contributes to the additional use of force in such an encounter.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 5:55 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
He had a bat. Other guy had a gun. Really?
Posted on 9/9/16 at 5:57 pm to 7thWardTiger
I want to know what led up to this. It almost looked to me like these two knew each other.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 5:58 pm to banone74
quote:
He had a bat. Other guy had a gun. Really?
How many times have you been hit in the head with a metal bat or pipe?
I'd guess either zero or way too many.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:01 pm to Darth_Vader
Darth, it's not like the bat guy got out of car wielding a gun. No, he got the bat out of trunk & approved the car. The shooter saw this. He saw he only had a bat. After the two shots, bat guy ain't doing squat. If he reaches for his pockets, finish him off. But that didn't happen. Shooter was in no danger after those two shots.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:06 pm to banone74
quote:
Darth, it's not like the bat guy got out of car wielding a gun. No, he got the bat out of trunk & approved the car. The shooter saw this. He saw he only had a bat.
You sound like the family.
quote:
He could have shot him in the foot
Maybe he should have tackled him, too.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:06 pm to bubba35741
quote:
If I was on the jury...He would walk.
Not guilty.
Charge a person with a weapon, they can defend.
Too far? what does that even mean?
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:10 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Again, what is your experience with this type of situation?
You first. If you are still having night terrors over the idea of being clubbed with a bat that would explain why you seem to be ok with the additional shots.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:23 pm to Jim Rockford
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:26 pm to molsusports
quote:
You first.
You've apparently never seen me shoot at 100 yards.
quote:
If you are still having night terrors over the idea of being clubbed with a bat that would explain why you seem to be ok with the additional shots.
No. That dude wouldn't have made it to my rear bumper.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:35 pm to 7thWardTiger
From what I saw, something happened before footage began and the dude in the white car probably did "something" to start it. That being said, guy with the bat deserved everything he got for attacking like that. Ole boy "should" be able to walk from this.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:38 pm to banone74
quote:
He saw he only had a bat. After the two shots, bat guy ain't doing squat. If he reaches for his pockets, finish him off. But that didn't happen. Shooter was in no danger after those two shots.
So this is your go to every time you get assaulted with a pipe and then have to shoot someone?
Jeez the arm chair quarterbacking in these situations is amazing.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:41 pm to 7thWardTiger
quote:
First shot is definitely justified, but the standing over him and shooting him in the side/back of the head is when it gets iffy.
I would acquit him without even breaking a sweat if I were on the jury.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:43 pm to molsusports
quote:
If you are still having night terrors over the idea of being clubbed with a bat
Being clubbed with a bat is a good way to get killed. In fact it is probably more dangerous than being shot at, most handgun bullets won't kill unless they hit a vital area. Repeated blows to the head from a bat will.
The shooter was being threatened with deadly force wielded by a determined attacker. There might be more evidence that would change my mind, but based strictly on the video he should walk.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 6:57 pm to 7thWardTiger
It was justified, regardless of where/how many times he shot him. I'd consider someone swinging a baseball bat around my head as a threat to my life. My first priority is making sure I eliminate that threat, whether it's running or defending myself. This guy was cornered in his car seat, hence he took the only appropriate action.
Self defense from a threat to your life is never fricking iffy.
Self defense from a threat to your life is never fricking iffy.
This post was edited on 9/9/16 at 6:58 pm
Posted on 9/9/16 at 7:01 pm to 7thWardTiger
What the frick is wrong with people?
Posted on 9/9/16 at 7:03 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Wrong. This is how you lose, and you don't want to lose.
"I was afraid for my life."
Guy walks.
Posted on 9/9/16 at 7:07 pm to asurob1
quote:
"I was afraid for my life."
Guy walks
Yep. I mean hell. Watching that video, I can't even say that he wasn't going to hit that dude with the bat before the gun came out.
Getting killed when attacking with a weapon that could kill the other guy seems like a fairly logical result.
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