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re: Oklahoma Police now have device that seizes $$ from bank card
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:15 pm to xxKylexx
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:15 pm to xxKylexx
quote:
Can't wait for the people who have no clue what this does and assume all cops are gonna steal your money
They prefer to use the word "seize" rather than steal, and only if they suspect you of criminal activity, but they dont have to charge or convict you to take it, so I am often curious how they figure out who is a criminal and who isn't.
0
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:16 pm to schexyoung
It apparently only works with pre paid cards and accounts, not standard bank accounts..But am interesting quote from the article
No due process = Oklahoma has a bunch of fascists.
quote:
Henderson, of the ACLU, said usually in freezing or seizing money from financial accounts, “there are all kinds of steps where courts get involved so that there’s a check and balance there. All of that would be eliminated in this situation. It’s a situation where you have an instant freeze with zero due process.”
No due process = Oklahoma has a bunch of fascists.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:16 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Only from those suspected of criminal activity, not even charged or convicted.
Ah, well in that case, this is okay, because we all know that only criminals get bank accounts.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:18 pm to schexyoung
quote:
does not compute with...
You may want to read the whole article.
quote:
The vehicle-mounted scanners are also capable of retrieving and storing limited account information from other cards as well, such as banking debit cards, credit cards and “payment account information from virtually any magnetic stripe card,”
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:20 pm to yoga girl
quote:
Is that not anyone in Oklahoma who has the cajones to point out how bad this is? I really don't understand why this is not front page news and why everyone -conservative and liberal - is not up in arms about this. This is worse than traffic cameras. I really wish I was a better wordsmith because this is just beyond reason and belief, but I can't express my shock very well. ETA: Just what we need - the police with the right to rifle through the credit cards you keep in your wallet (along with membership cards, etc.). This is dictatorship kind of stuff. Wait until some small town, G.E.D. cop gets one of these.
First off, I am impressed. Yoga Girl said something intelligent and poignant.
2nd, I totally agree. This is a huge invasion of privacy. Caught with a bag of weed? Now you're broke too. Good luck getting that money back. If anyone thinks this is going to only be used for gift cards and such they are retarded. Won't be long before these devices are issued to every cop car in every precinct.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:20 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
NYNolaguy1
You and I have gone back and forth on the practice of civil asset forfeiture, and I've suggested even though it is despicable it is largely avoidable by not carrying large amounts of cash. This is taking it to an entirely different level of theft by the police and hopefully it will mark the beginning of the end of the act.
At a minimum it should greatly increase the amount of scrutiny the programs receive from the general public.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:25 pm to ShoeBang
I've read a lot of all the horrible things that have happened because of forfeiture laws.
"We found some weed ... lets run those cards."
Anyone who thinks there won't be a ton of abuse is crazy.
"We found some weed ... lets run those cards."
Anyone who thinks there won't be a ton of abuse is crazy.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:27 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
You may want to read the whole article.
This is the OT not WORK. But yeah, I fully admit to being a lazy bum and not reading the article.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:31 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
retrieving and storing limited account information from other cards as well, such as banking debit cards, credit cards and “payment account information from virtually any magnetic stripe card,”
quote:
You may want to read the whole sentence.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:31 pm to CCTider
quote:
What the hell is the point of this? Since when did drug dealers start using gift cards and bank accounts? This sounds sketchy as hell.
Traffickers have been using prepaid cards instead of carrying cash for a long time now. That is not new.
Green Dot cards are very popular.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:33 pm to slackster
quote:
You and I have gone back and forth on the practice of civil asset forfeiture, and I've suggested even though it is despicable it is largely avoidable by not carrying large amounts of cash. This is taking it to an entirely different level of theft by the police and hopefully it will mark the beginning of the end of the act.
At a minimum it should greatly increase the amount of scrutiny the programs receive from the general public.
You'd hope it ends the practice, yet there's an entire generation of people that think the war on drugs was a good thing, and those types of people support this madness.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:34 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
limited account information
You only need a routing number and an account number to wipe out an entire account. I am sure that qualifies as limited info.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:35 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
You only need a routing number and an account number to wipe out an entire account. I am sure that qualifies as limited info.
And are they getting that info and taking the money? Or are you just assuming that's happening?
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:38 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
And are they getting that info and taking the money? Or are you just assuming that's happening?
Typically that's the mechanism to electronically transfer funds from one account to another. The article describes that in some detail by being able to access open loop networks.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:39 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
Typically that's the mechanism to electronically transfer funds from one account to another
I know that. I'm asking if the OK police are actually taking routing and account numbers and taking money out of the accounts?
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:54 pm to NYNolaguy1
“If we have reasonable suspicion to believe there’s a crime being committed, we’re going to investigate that. If someone has 300 cards taped up and hidden inside the dash of a vehicle, we’re going to check that,” Vincent said. “But if the person has proof that it belongs to him for legitimate reasons, there’s nothing going to happen. We won’t seize it.”
"ERAD Group will receive a 7.7 percent cut of all funds seized via the card readers."
“You have effectively a way of instantly seizing a digital account from a traffic stop,” Henderson said. “That’s a capability I have never seen before.”
I don't have the words to describe the insanity of this. No judge, no warrant, just the 'judgment' of some dimestore cowboy...WOW!
"ERAD Group will receive a 7.7 percent cut of all funds seized via the card readers."
“You have effectively a way of instantly seizing a digital account from a traffic stop,” Henderson said. “That’s a capability I have never seen before.”
I don't have the words to describe the insanity of this. No judge, no warrant, just the 'judgment' of some dimestore cowboy...WOW!
This post was edited on 6/8/16 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:54 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
only in cases in which the trooper suspects criminal activity is taking place.
Guilty until proven innocent, and once you are proven innocent they already spent your money.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:56 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
I'm asking if the OK police are actually taking routing and account numbers and taking money out of the accounts?
If they're not going to take the money, then what use are the machines even for?
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:57 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
know that. I'm asking if the OK police are actually taking routing and account numbers and taking money out of the accounts?
Well, the article says that the funds can be debited by this machine from credit cards and bank debit cards.
I don't think it's that large of a leap to assume that this machine reads a routing and bank account # it's tied to and transfers funds from there.
Being as I didn't design the machine though, you're correct in that I am assuming that's how it's done. I can't imagine banks would be very happy about these machines being out there though.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 1:58 pm to LNCHBOX
quote:
I'm asking if the OK police are actually taking routing and account numbers and taking money out of the accounts?
"Once the card’s account balance is determined, the officer can use the device to freeze the funds, preventing withdrawal or use of the money in the account, or seize the funds by having them transferred to a law enforcement financial account, the patent states."
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