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Message
re: Morgan Stanley CEO to bankers: If you want NYC salary, you need to be in NYC
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:27 am to baldona
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:27 am to baldona
quote:
What if I told you that’s great and we get that, good for you. But not every single industry and every single business is like that? Again, if you can do that great. But let’s not act like just because you can EVERYONE can.
I never said everyone can. I responded to the person who made it sound like everyone is replaceable by a young up and comer. And that's simply incorrect.
2
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:36 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:Agreeing with someone's position is white knighting?
Some do, but if don’t work for Morgan, why are you white knighting for their CEO?
If your favorite team signs the player you wanted them to sign, is celebrating it white knighting?
Seems like a weird designation to make, but okay.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:42 am to baldona
quote:You're doing the exact same thing, but on the opposite side.
What if I told you that’s great and we get that, good for you. But not every single industry and every single business is like that? Again, if you can do that great. But let’s not act like just because you can EVERYONE can.
There are some jobs that can be 100% remote, there are some that can be a hybrid model, and there are some that need asses in seats every day. Painting every situation with a broad brush is stupid.
ETA: my "problem" with the "reasoning" behind some of the move back to a work from the office model is that it's not really motivated by a "need" for the employees to be back in the office. I was on a call with a c-suite executive in for a large healthcare organization and he mentioned that they were going to move employees back into offices because the mayor and governor wouldn't be happy if these employees were able to live elsewhere (thus bringing tax revenue elsewhere). That's a horseshite reason, IMO.
This post was edited on 6/16/21 at 7:48 am
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:50 am to Centinel
you and i agree on a lot on this board. but…
it’s my opinion that if you and your coworker are equally skilled and produce equally, yet he works in the office 5 days a week. He should be paid significantly more than you.
And i’d love to buy 5 acres in the middle of nowhere and do my job from home 100%. I’d still argue my coworkers who work in the office 5 days a week make more than me.
it’s my opinion that if you and your coworker are equally skilled and produce equally, yet he works in the office 5 days a week. He should be paid significantly more than you.
And i’d love to buy 5 acres in the middle of nowhere and do my job from home 100%. I’d still argue my coworkers who work in the office 5 days a week make more than me.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:51 am to RedRifle
He makes a great point. Developing young workers will suffer everywhere in remote environments
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:53 am to Abraham H Parnassis
quote:
Agreeing with someone's position is white knighting?
If your favorite team signs the player you wanted them to sign, is celebrating it white knighting?
Seems like a weird designation to make, but okay.
Stahp. Is Morgan his favorite sports team? This is an asinine analogy.
My comment is directed to the boomeresque "rah-rah" (actually, maybe a sports analogy is fitting) about the CEO's comments that emanate from a certain segment of the OT.
This post was edited on 6/16/21 at 7:54 am
Posted on 6/16/21 at 7:56 am to Mo Jeaux
You seem to really despise working in the office and people who think you should work in an office in threads like these. What's the deal?
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:00 am to Klark Kent
quote:This is asinine
it’s my opinion that if you and your coworker are equally skilled and produce equally, yet he works in the office 5 days a week. He should be paid significantly more than you.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:00 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:It's a perfect analogy.
Stahp. Is Morgan his favorite sports team? This is an asinine analogy.
My comment is directed to the boomeresque "rah-rah" (actually, maybe a sports analogy is fitting) about the CEO's comments that emanate from a certain segment of the OT.
In both cases the person is ostensibly not attached to either corporate entity. In both cases the entity performs an action that the person agrees with.
By your logic that's white knighting. Agreeing the actions of businesses you aren't related to is white knighting?
I don't know. Seems thin to me.
Tell us, why don't you think this is a good idea? You get an NYC salary to offset the NYC COL, plus the firm has explained the importance of keeping its workforce in the city.
Tell us why they're mistaken.
This post was edited on 6/16/21 at 8:02 am
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:01 am to Brettesaurus Rex
quote:
Remote work is the future. And frankly, companies resisting it are idiots
Truth. And then those same companies will wonder why they have so much turnover.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:03 am to Klark Kent
quote:
it’s my opinion that if you and your coworker are equally skilled and produce equally, yet he works in the office 5 days a week. He should be paid significantly more than you.
Why?
My job has no need to be in an office. At all. Me being in the office brings nothing extra to the table. I don't work on a team, I don't manage anyone. I'm the only person who does what I do.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:05 am to BeeFense5
quote:
You seem to really despise working in the office and people who think you should work in an office in threads like these. What's the deal?
For me, it was a realization of how much of my time was wasted commuting. I have the type of job that where I really don't need to work in the office. I work with clients from all over the world, many of whom I had never met face-to-face pre-pandemic. Most of my in-person client meetings happened outside of the office pre-pandemic and can continue to be so now.
For me, it's a personal thing. I'm not saying my position fits with others. I recognize that different jobs have different needs and responsibilities. My reaction to others in these threads is merely a reaction to some who seem to be proponents of the middle manager "get your butts back in the office to do your TPS Reports" attitude.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:07 am to Mo Jeaux
Really what much of this boils down to is "it's not fair that he can work remote and I can't because of our different jobs."
It's one of the reasons it's taking so long for my firm to release an official WFH policy. There are members of the staff who have to be in the office based on what they do, and they're all butthurt that they have to be in the office yet someone like me who has no need to will get to WFH.
It's one of the reasons it's taking so long for my firm to release an official WFH policy. There are members of the staff who have to be in the office based on what they do, and they're all butthurt that they have to be in the office yet someone like me who has no need to will get to WFH.
This post was edited on 6/16/21 at 8:08 am
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:08 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
he mentioned that they were going to move employees back into offices because the mayor and governor wouldn't be happy if these employees were able to live elsewhere (thus bringing tax revenue elsewhere). That's a horseshite reason, IMO.
I've heard one of the main reasons that the mayors of big cities want workers back in the buildings is because otherwise there are $750 million high rises that are 85% empty. If companies that own/lease these spaces can't sell them off because no other companies are working in-person, there are massive drains on their city's revenue.
Companies will certainly save money by switching the WFH full-time, but they'll also be losing money with everything they shelled out for office space that they can't get rid of. For the governments and companies based out of NYC, LA, Chicago, etc., the easiest solution is to just try to get their employees back.
I'm not one who cares about the health of big urban centers, but anyone who has lived in "up-and-coming" cities like me (particularly in the south) have seen swaths of NYC, DC, and Boston transplants who are nothing more than glorified data entry clerks move down here and raise the cost of everything with their six-figure salaries that truly aren't commensurate with their skills. They're pricing the native residents out of the market all because they earn a pay that is reflective of our market before the pandemic.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:12 am to baldona
quote:
I also laugh at all these people that point out their one job they can do from home. Honestly that’s great guys, honestly good for you. But let’s pull your head out of your arse and realize the entire company can’t do that.
The funny part to me is that despite all of these “I am way more productive from home” comments that pop up, I’ve noticed that the most vocal WFH advocates at my company tend to be the least productive employees. The high performers tend to be the ones that are itching to get back to normal and go to the office voluntarily whenever they can.
I suspect it’s because the high performers are committed and enjoy their jobs, plus some amount of animosity towards those who have used WFH as a way to fly under the radar and half arse it.
It’s not universal and there are definitely some people I think very highly of who don’t want to go back to the office. It definitely varies by role. But the general trend I see is that the folks who say “I don’t need to be at the office to do my job” are disenchanted/jaded with their jobs in general or are the type who severely overestimate their capabilities/value/work ethic.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:12 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
my "problem" with the "reasoning" behind some of the move back to a work from the office model is that it's not really motivated by a "need" for the employees to be back in the office.
There isn’t a need for most employees to be in the office 100% of the time. But being 100% wfh absolutely hinders development of new hires that have yet to network and don’t even know what they don’t know yet.
Being 100% either way isn’t the answer. The answer is customizing your schedules to do what works best for each team and company. However this thread has diverged from what the CEO said. He didn’t say you had to work in the office. He said you won’t be paid NYC paychecks while not living in NYC
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:16 am to lostinbr
quote:
But the general trend I see is that the folks who say “I don’t need to be at the office to do my job” are disenchanted/jaded with their jobs in general or are the type who severely overestimate their capabilities/value/work ethic.
Sounds like your company has a management problem.
My boss is one of the ones fighting the hardest to let me and the engineers WFH. Because we all love our jobs, and go above and beyond for them. I responded to an incident while on vacation in Belize. I spent all of New Years day dealing with another incident. I don't go anywhere, not even vacation, without my work laptop. Because I'm the only one that can do what I do when the shite hits the fan. The engineers have similar stories.
He's fighting to let us WFH at least three days a week to give back to us all the extra time we've worked on weekends, holidays, or late at night. The other staff do nothing but work 9-6, M-F. No weekends. No holidays. No late nights.
This post was edited on 6/16/21 at 8:18 am
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:19 am to Centinel
quote:
My job has no need to be in an office. At all. Me being in the office brings nothing extra to the table. I don't work on a team, I don't manage anyone. I'm the only person who does what I do.
There aren’t a lot of jobs like that where you are a solo contributor neither on a team nor responsible for anyone. That’s a different scenario completely and uncommon.
In most cases the guy who lives in suburbia right outside of a major city has a lot more expenses to show face at work 5 days a week compared to the guy who rolls out of bed and logs in.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:19 am to Centinel
quote:
I responded to an incident while on vacation in Belize. I spent all of New Years day dealing with another incident. I don't go anywhere, not even vacation, without my work laptop.
For your own health, you need to stop doing that.
Posted on 6/16/21 at 8:20 am to Bluefin
quote:
I've heard one of the main reasons that the mayors of big cities want workers back in the buildings is because otherwise there are $750 million high rises that are 85% empty. If companies that own/lease these spaces can't sell them off because no other companies are working in-person, there are massive drains on their city's revenue.
This is one of the bug repercussions that seem unavoidable at this point. I personally don’t want to work from home any more and selfishly wish everyone else wouldn’t either because going to work in a office with 25% of the staff there isn’t really what I’d prefer either. It’s selfish ‘wants’ though and I know that. I do see a large impact on downtowns and the businesses that support these large offices (restaurants, coffee shops,etc.) and wonder how this all looks 20 years from now. For my personal job, I see training new employees being a challenge but I thinks it’s one that can be overcome.
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