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Meanwhile.. in space...Astronauts are filing for Boeing refunds for flight delays.

Posted on 7/16/24 at 1:39 pm
Posted by NATidefan
Two hours North of Birmingham
Member since Dec 2008
36582 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 1:39 pm
LINK

quote:

NASA

Astronauts are stuck on the International Space Station after yet more problems with Boeing’s beleaguered Starliner




quote:

For the past few weeks, Nasa astronauts Butch Wilmore and Suni Williams have been stuck on the International Space Station (ISS) after the first crewed voyage of Boeing’s new Starliner spacecraft hit a snag. Concerns raised by Boeing and Nasa over thruster problems and several helium leaks (helium is used in Starliner’s engine system) have prevented the craft from making the return journey as scheduled. Nasa has now said the astronauts may have to stay put until the next scheduled crew switchover in August – potentially on another ship.

Boeing and Nasa are trying to put a positive spin on the extension by saying they are testing systems required for longer Starliner missions. But the project has already suffered several delays, having originally been set to lift off for the first time with crew in 2017. This, combined with the latest problems raise questions over the whole Starliner programme.

Starliner was noted as having a small helium leak before it even launched. Helium is an inert gas (much like neon or xenon), meaning that it is very unreactive with other materials.

This makes it ideal when coming into contact with rocket fuel and high temperatures, although producing it is an expensive process. It is pressurised and used to push fuel into the engines at the correct rate. Helium leaks can mean that not enough fuel will reach a thruster.




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The leak spotted while Starliner was on the launch pad was determined to be negligible and the spacecraft was sent to orbit regardless. However, this turned into a larger problem when additional helium leaks were identified following launch, meaning that several of the spacecraft’s small manoeuvring thrusters couldn’t be used.

Four of the five thrusters have been repaired while Starliner has been docked to the ISS, but it raises concern for other thrusters cutting out during the return journey to Earth. On Starliner’s return, re-entering Earth’s atmosphere requires a very specific “angle of attack” to ensure there is not too much friction heating up the vessel




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An inability to adjust the orientation of the craft or the orbital parameters for re-entry could in the worst-case scenario result in massive heat build up and the destruction of the spacecraft with two astronauts on board.

There are additional thrusters and other so-called “redundancies” – back up systems – designed into the spacecraft, so this is a very unlikely scenario. However, so were the helium leaks. While Boeing and Nasa have considered it safe to return on Starliner, it’s perfectly conceivable that the astronauts might have some trepidation and anxiety – especially as these issues did not occur with the uncrewed test flights.

The next particular problem is that Starliner returns and jettisons its service module on re-entry as it returns to the surface on land rather than at sea (like Russian spacecraft Soyuz did and the SpaceX Dragon capsules do). This means that the bit of the spacecraft with all the vital information on will be burned up, making it very difficult to determine what actually went wrong.

Investigations in space

Currently ground tests are being run by Nasa and investigations are being conducted on the ISS to gather as much information as possible before the return.

The astronauts made it up to the ISS and are safe there. While it is likely that Starliner will return to Earth, should a major fault be discovered while it is docked to the ISS, there are other return vehicles that can be used to ferry the two crew members back home.

The astronauts’ safety will no doubt be paramount in the minds of both agency and industry. But this is not the first problem with Starliner. The vehicle has suffered from major delays since conception as part of the Commercial Crew Program in 2010.

The contract indicated that Starliner should be ready by 2017 with a two-year delay before the first successful unmanned launch in 2022 (there was a failed attempt in 2019). The main crewed launch was then delayed by a month.

These delays indicate that Boeing is falling behind its main commercial competitor SpaceX, which won a contract at the same time as Boeing in 2010 to build vehicles that could transport crew to the ISS. SpaceX successfully launched a crewed mission with the Dragon capsule in 2020. To give an indication of the success, Crew Dragon is currently completing its fifth manned mission to the ISS, and has also completed 30 cargo missions.

Boeing has been a major player in space missions with Nasa for decades, playing a major role in the space shuttle programme, for example. This relationship continues with the company’s role in the Space Launch System (SLS) rocket that will send astronauts on their way to the Moon.

The company has been one of the biggest and most admired contractors in the aerospace industry. However, the problems with the Starliner come not long after widely publicised incidents with Boeing aircraft, so the corporation could do without any further problems with its crewed spacecraft to add to its woes.







Posted by PJinAtl
Atlanta
Member since Nov 2007
13433 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 2:21 pm to
I'll be honest, I don't quite understand why this capsule was even funded.

It isn't the capsule that will be used for moon or Mars missions. SpaceX Dragons are routinely making trips to the ISS both for cargo and crew hauling.

I know that the ISS will be brought down in the near future, and Boeing is in a partnership with Blue Origin to launch/crew/service a commercial space station using Starliner, but at this point it seems like it should just be scrapped.
Posted by wheelr
Banned
Member since Jul 2012
5800 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 2:25 pm to
At least they are aware of the issues.

I read the Columbia Crew Survival Investigation Report the other night. A very interesting read if you are interested in space or things like material science.

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20090002404
Posted by SundayFunday
Member since Sep 2011
9626 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 2:27 pm to
Probably to try and spite SpaceX since Elon Hate is so hot these days
Posted by Free888
Member since Oct 2019
2431 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 3:56 pm to
quote:

I'll be honest, I don't quite understand why this capsule was even funded.

They were planning for redundancy (this is a perfect example why), and to not be beholden to one contractor. If Blue Origin had ever gotten their act together, Boeing wouldn’t even be in the picture.
Posted by JimTiger72
Member since Jun 2023
11543 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 3:57 pm to
Space isn’t real
Posted by Bigfishchoupique
Member since Jul 2017
9121 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:07 pm to
I hope they have enough BeanieWeenies and stuff to eat. Whenever I go on a trip I pack BeanieWeenies and a spoon in case I get stuck over there.
This post was edited on 7/16/24 at 4:09 pm
Posted by Dr RC
The Money Pit
Member since Aug 2011
59930 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:13 pm to
Maybe Boeing will be the tip of the iceberg that gets people to wake the frick up and take back this nations companies from private equity and wall street scum who nickel and dime and cost cut everything into broken failing shite.

Ahh, who am I kidding? They're all just going to pay off enough people so they can continue to screw the country while lining their pockets.
Posted by MoarKilometers
Member since Apr 2015
19846 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:22 pm to
quote:

I'll be honest, I don't quite understand why this capsule was even funded.

In case spacex gets the falcon 9 grounded, like we currently are, seems fairly obvious.
Posted by LSUFanHouston
NOLA
Member since Jul 2009
39180 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:40 pm to
I think at this point, it’s even money that Starliner will not be returning to earth with passengers on board.,

Maybe they try to fly it remotely and if successful they can then investigate it.

If no souls on board, can it be landed with service module attached?
Posted by Swamp Angel
Somewhere on a river
Member since Jul 2004
8858 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:44 pm to
1) Never should have retired the shuttle program

2) This is what we got from Obama's realignment of NASA's mission to highlight all the greatness of scientific advances brought to us by Muslims.

3) Boeing is having enough difficulties keeping 737s airworthy. They don't need to be trying to land contracts involved in space flight.
Posted by Zarkinletch416
Deep in the Heart of Texas
Member since Jan 2020
8689 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:45 pm to
…….welcome to Joe Biden’s version of NASA. What a mess.
Posted by MoarKilometers
Member since Apr 2015
19846 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:49 pm to
quote:

1) Never should have retired the shuttle program


No, we never should've wasted time with the shuttle to begin with. We should've stayed with rockets and saved skylab.
Posted by TigerFanatic99
South Bend, Indiana
Member since Jan 2007
32743 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:50 pm to
It's a shame Biden and his team's ego is too big to just call Elon and get those souls home.
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
34351 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:51 pm to
Shuttle always had little bottles of Tabasco.
8
Posted by N2cars
Member since Feb 2008
34351 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 4:56 pm to
You are incorrect.

But you're entitled to your opinion, as uneducated as it may be.
Posted by MoarKilometers
Member since Apr 2015
19846 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 5:46 pm to
quote:

But you're entitled to your opinion, as uneducated as it may be.

Yeah, I bet my grandpa was just full of shite when discussing rockets and space stations

Posted by soccerfüt
Location: A Series of Tubes
Member since May 2013
70207 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 6:00 pm to
quote:

While Boeing and Nasa have considered it safe to return on Starliner, it’s perfectly conceivable that the astronauts might have some trepidation and anxiety – especially as these issues did not occur with the uncrewed test flights.
Did we accidentally send up a crew of Brownies?
Posted by AlwysATgr
Member since Apr 2008
19044 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 6:34 pm to
quote:

No, we never should've wasted time with the shuttle to begin with.


The shuttle was always going to be limited in its usefulness and constrained to LEO. But there has been a ton of useful data gleaned from STS that might otherwise still be 'out there.' For example, LDEF - not sure if there would have been capability to return it apart from the shuttle. And it has been a treasure trove of material data that has shaped spacecraft design ever since.

As John Young once described it to us the shuttle is nothing more than a pickup truck. I don't really keep up that much with space today but is there capability to retrieve and return satellites from LEO via other means?
Posted by RougeWinger
Member since Jul 2024
101 posts
Posted on 7/16/24 at 6:36 pm to
quote:

I don't really keep up that much with space today but is there capability to retrieve and return satellites from LEO via other means?


I don't think right now but SpaceX Starship should be able to once it gets fully up and running.
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