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re: Man videos confrontation with police who pulls him over . Running stop sign.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:06 am to StringedInstruments
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:06 am to StringedInstruments
Your whole rant assumes the guy did in fact run the stop sign(s). If he did not and that was the alleged reason for the stop, the entire stop was possibly illegal. However, without his recording and questioning of the cop, he would have no evidence to submit in his defense.
The cop's looking at his windshield only after the guy vehemently denies running the stop sign and saying the windshield is cracked, then later mentioning speeding could lead a reasonable person and judge to believe the cop violated the citizens rights by stopping him in the first place without sufficient suspicion or cause.
For those reasons, questioning the officer while recording was a good idea by the driver. However, he should have provided his license and registration quicker and should have been more respectful and compliant while continuing to video and continuing to probe the officers bs reasons for the stop.
The cop's looking at his windshield only after the guy vehemently denies running the stop sign and saying the windshield is cracked, then later mentioning speeding could lead a reasonable person and judge to believe the cop violated the citizens rights by stopping him in the first place without sufficient suspicion or cause.
For those reasons, questioning the officer while recording was a good idea by the driver. However, he should have provided his license and registration quicker and should have been more respectful and compliant while continuing to video and continuing to probe the officers bs reasons for the stop.
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 11:08 am
2
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:06 am to slutiger5
quote:
I blame it on the video games.
I'm right there with you.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:06 am to meauxjeaux2
The guy did not have to step out of his car
The cop had no right to reach in his car and attack him
The cop had no right to reach in his car and attack him
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:07 am to djangochained
quote:
The guy did not have to step out of his car
The cop had no right to reach in his car and attack him
ahh frick it.
I can't take it no more.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:10 am to djangochained
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:10 am to WDE24
quote:
Your whole rant assumes the guy did in fact run the stop sign(s). If he did not and that was the alleged reason for the stop, the entire stop was illegal. However, without his recording and questioning of the cop, he would have no evidence to submit in his defense.
The cops looking at his windshield only after the guy vehemently denies running the stop sign and saying the windshield is cracked, then later mentioning speeding could lead a reasonable person and judge to believe the cop violated the citizens rights by stopping him in the first place.
For those reasons, questioning the officer while recording was a good idea by the driver if indeed he was wrongfully stopped. However, he should have provided his license and registration quicker and should have been more respectful and compliant while continuing to video and continuing to probe the officers bs reasons for the stop.
As someone with a master's degree, I like to think I'm a reasonable person. I don't think the cop violated the citizen's rights by stopping him for what the cop perceived to be running a stop sign.
The video is fine. The questioning is fine. It was his inability to allow the cop to do his job. Both participants in this situation have rights and one attempted to hinder the other.
Aren't you a lawyer? Does the cop have the right to remove a person from a vehicle if they refuse to do so after being asked to?
*I'd like to add that no where in my rant did I say that the driver indeed ran the stop sign.
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 11:11 am
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:11 am to djangochained
quote:
The guy did not have to step out of his car
When the most ardent "How to protect your rights while dealing with the police" disagree with you.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:14 am to ZereauxSum
This post was edited on 5/1/15 at 12:04 am
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:14 am to meauxjeaux2
quote:
quote:
Next time I am pulled over for a traffic violation I am going to tell the cop, "Nah, nah...hold up"
I'm sure that will go over well.
quote:
exactly. Right after you load up your Escalade full of foodstamp lobster,steaks and skrimps.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:15 am to StringedInstruments
quote:Unless of course he was stopping him for an unlawful reason and using an alleged minor traffic violation as a pretext. Cops do it a lot.
I don't think the cop violated the citizen's rights by stopping him for what the cop perceived to be running a stop sign.
quote:Here is the problem with these situations, the rights are dependent on the facts of the case and no one is at the scene to judge the facts of the case in the moment. Almost everything the cop did after the stop is impermissible and/or inadmissible if the stop itself was impermissible. That determination won't be made at the scene though, so videoing and requesting info from the officer is the citizens only defense and evidence gathering option.
Does the cop have the right to remove a person from a vehicle if they refuse to do so after being asked to?
However, it should be done without antagonizing and he should comply with simple requests such as providing license and registration or stepping out of the vehicle.
Both parties needlessly escalated the situation.
This post was edited on 7/23/14 at 11:18 am
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:18 am to WDE24
quote:
Your whole rant assumes the guy did in fact run the stop sign(s). If he did not and that was the alleged reason for the stop, the entire stop was possibly illegal. However, without his recording and questioning of the cop, he would have no evidence to submit in his defense.
There's nothing wrong with asking questions. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing about the stop sign and about the speeding.
In the video, the situation turned when, for the 3rd time, the officer asked him for license/registration and the kid said "no,no,no...hold on" to continue to argue that he wasn't speeding.
He already stated he wasn't speeding. He had whatever "evidence" he needed to contest the stop.
The cop definitely failed to de-escalate the situation but there wouldn't have been a situation to de-escalate had the driver produced his license/registration after being asked repeatedly to do so.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:18 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
The cops looking at his windshield only after the guy vehemently denies running the stop sign and saying the windshield is cracked, then later mentioning speeding could lead a reasonable person and judge to believe the cop violated the citizens rights by stopping him in the first place.
The belligerency comes out too early to be sure if this is true.
He asked why he pulled over.
He told him.
Then he told him he had a cracked windshield as well.
The choice of order may very well have been because of it being a secondary violation in his state: a ticketable offense that you can't pull someone over for but becomes free game if they are pulled over for another reason.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:19 am to meauxjeaux2
The only issue I have is that the cop allowed only 33 seconds from the time he asked for the license and registration before he yanks the guy out of his car.
If the cop would have shut his mouth and stopped distracting the driver from getting his license and registration he might have been able to do it.
If the cop would have shut his mouth and stopped distracting the driver from getting his license and registration he might have been able to do it.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:19 am to WDE24
quote:and this is something to be ironed out in court or thrown out by the DA's office no?
Unless of course he was stopping him for an unlawful reason and using an alleged minor traffic violation as a pretext. Cops do it a lot.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:19 am to slutiger5
quote:
people misinterpret the fine line of freedom. they assume freedom means they do what they want and convince themselves they answer to no one. you answer to a govt which hires officers to execute laws. im sure there are many a-hole cops, however, they are under unmeasurable stress and get the right to instruct any citizen to shutup and obide their orders. then the citizen uses their rights to argue to a judge their dismantlement.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:19 am to ZereauxSum
Everything you just said x2
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:20 am to Volvagia
quote:One can't be sure, that is why I said one could reasonably believe it to be true. A good lawyer could likely argue it well enough to get the case dismissed, but that is pure speculation.
The belligerency comes out too early to be sure if this is true.
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:21 am to CptBengal
Can anyone figure out what kind of vehicle he is driving? The headliner has me confused. Maybe a single cab truck?
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:22 am to meauxjeaux2
quote:Yes, that is what I have said repeatedly in the thread. However, the citizen has to do enough evidence gathering to have something to present to the judge. He isn't going to have a chance if it is merely his word against the cops 6 months down the road. That is why I said part of what he did was good because he recorded an encounter and got the cop to respond i a way that at least draws the legality of the initial stop into question. Unfortunately, he tried to win the case on the side of the road and that almost never works.
and this is something to be ironed out in court or thrown out by the DA's office no?
Posted on 7/23/14 at 11:23 am to meauxjeaux2
The thing that many of you are not taking into consideration(and none of us know) is that the man was apparently recording because he'd done nothing wrong and wanted to protect himself. He even said in the video he saw the cop and he made sure to stop at the stop signs. I'll take him at his word in this case and assume he knew the cop was pulling him over for DWB. The cop attempting to find other laws the man had broken supports this, IMO.
If that was indeed the case, you have to expect the guy to be a little pissed, and rightfully so.
If that was indeed the case, you have to expect the guy to be a little pissed, and rightfully so.
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