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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 12/18/24 at 2:08 pm to doubleb
Posted on 12/18/24 at 2:08 pm to doubleb
quote:
Would the Oreshnik missiles deliver larger payloads than what Russia is using now to destroy apartment buildings and businesses
Yes, larger and at Mach 10 speed. With no Air Defense against them.
2
Posted on 12/18/24 at 2:08 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Who else are we teaching then? Be specific, if that is even possible for you. The only country that has both the desire and capability to do something like this is China. Do you think it is going to deter China at all on Taiwan? I don't.
China, Iran, Russia, and NK are the main ones. Of course you also need to show our allies that we aren’t paper tigers so you could add them to the list.
Now if you can’t understand that, I don’t know what to say, but you probably don’t.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 2:14 pm to doubleb
quote:
China,
Already covered this one
quote:
Iran
Not capable
quote:
NK
Not Capable
So that leaves your one example again
quote:
Of course you also need to show our allies that we aren’t paper tigers so you could add them to the list.
Considering how much we subsidize the defense of pretty much all of our allies given our military spending and the very existence of us, I don't think they need convincing. They were so convinced of our might that they didn't even pay for their own defense at the levels they were supposed to for years before Trump threatened to rug pull them.
quote:
Now if you can’t understand that, I don’t know what to say, but you probably don’t.
You should get new lines. You've only demonstrated the ability to regurgitate points other people make, but haven't show the ability to have any original thoughts yourself.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 2:18 pm to John Barron
quote:
Yes, larger and at Mach 10 speed. With no Air Defense against them.
I agree that they haven't played all of the cards in their had, but I do have doubts about the effectiveness or quality of those cards.
I think you'd have seen more than that one demonstration by now if they weren't either a) not as effective as they would want us to believe or b) they just don't have that many to use and need to save them.
But also like I've said a few times in this thread over the months, Russia still doesn't want to be seen internally as going "too hard" on Ukraine because of how linked the countries and populations are to each other. Some rockets hitting schools and hospitals can be covered up or played off, you hit something with one of those missiles and there is no cover up possible.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 2:39 pm to VolSquatch
Not capable of what?
Iran has already demonstrated that they can start wars in the Middle East which subsequently could lead to problems for our economy.
NK certainly could attack SK of Japan if they felt that we would do nothing.
You do not have a clue.
I know they don’t need convincing because we have proven over time our willingness to aid our allies. But you and others put forward the notion that aiding Ukraine is bad. I maintain that when we brokered the deal to have Ukraine give up their nukes that we along with Russia promised to help them defend themselves. We are doing that now.
Our allies see this as do other nations. They know next time to think twice.
Iran has already demonstrated that they can start wars in the Middle East which subsequently could lead to problems for our economy.
NK certainly could attack SK of Japan if they felt that we would do nothing.
You do not have a clue.
quote:
Considering how much we subsidize the defense of pretty much all of our allies given our military spending and the very existence of us, I don't think they need convincing
I know they don’t need convincing because we have proven over time our willingness to aid our allies. But you and others put forward the notion that aiding Ukraine is bad. I maintain that when we brokered the deal to have Ukraine give up their nukes that we along with Russia promised to help them defend themselves. We are doing that now.
Our allies see this as do other nations. They know next time to think twice.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 2:44 pm to doubleb
Posted on 12/18/24 at 3:07 pm to John Barron
quote:
Yes, larger and at Mach 10 speed. With no Air Defense against them
This is basically a high speed ballistic missile. Meaning it launches are a pre determined, fixed target and does not correct position.
Designed for a fixed target to delete anti missile defenses. Not sure on the accuracy vs other conventional ballistic missiles but not as accurate vs glide bombs and cruise missiles which can correct their flight path.
This missile was designed to carry a nuke so accuracy of “ball park” and not pin point.
Also the cost be other munitions make this more of a “flashy” weapon and not really a strategic weapon.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 3:44 pm to doubleb
quote:
doubleb
It seems that you don't even understand the original point you made. I'll post it here because I'm not sure you can even go back and find it, much less remember it
quote:
make sure Putin and others understand that when you invade your neighbors there are consequences to be faced.
So to answer these questions based on the parameters YOU initially set
quote:
Not capable of what?
Iran has already demonstrated that they can start wars in the Middle East which subsequently could lead to problems for our economy.
Starting a proxy war via a terrorist organization isn't an invasion of a neighbor. Iran can't invade a neighbor because they would get royally fricked by the US and Israel.
quote:
You do not have a clue.
You don't even know the argument you're making
If you didn't have the "correct opinion" for this thread you would be laughed out of here. You're the Lima or Winston of the Ukraine Cucks
This post was edited on 12/18/24 at 3:53 pm
Posted on 12/18/24 at 4:01 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Starting a proxy war via a terrorist organization isn't an invasion of a neighbor. Iran can't invade a neighbor because they would get royally fricked by the US and Israel.
You don’t recall Iran and Iraq getting in a hot war?
And a proxy war can be a serious threat to our economy, our allies and our interests. Dismissing the numerous proxy wars Iran had been involved in would be a big mistake.
quote:
king If we give out awards for this thread whenever Ukraine comes to a conclusion you are quickly gaining an insurmountable lead for the "Biggest Retard" award
If you are elected to hand out awards, wd are all in trouble.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 4:15 pm to doubleb
Posted on 12/18/24 at 5:00 pm to tigeraddict
quote:
This is basically a high speed ballistic missile. Meaning it launches are a pre determined, fixed target and does not correct position.
Designed for a fixed target to delete anti missile defenses. Not sure on the accuracy vs other conventional ballistic missiles but not as accurate vs glide bombs and cruise missiles which can correct their flight path.
This missile was designed to carry a nuke so accuracy of “ball park” and not pin point.
Also the cost be other munitions make this more of a “flashy” weapon and not really a strategic weapon.
The one used was far from any accuracy and the target was NOT protected by a Patriot battery.
This post was edited on 12/18/24 at 5:01 pm
Posted on 12/18/24 at 5:40 pm to doubleb
quote:
You don’t recall Iran and Iraq getting in a hot war?
Then who is iran going to invade today? Not something that happened years ago. Today.
quote:
And a proxy war can be a serious threat to our economy, our allies and our interests. Dismissing the numerous proxy wars Iran had been involved in would be a big mistake.
Then you should have included that initially instead of saying "invade neighbors"
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:21 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Then you should have included that initially instead of saying "invade neighbors"
I apologize, I forgot who I was addressing.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 6:38 pm to doubleb
Posted on 12/18/24 at 7:12 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
I think you'd have seen more than that one demonstration by now if they weren't either a) not as effective as they would want us to believe or b) they just don't have that many to use and need to save them.
They are not at all accurate as precision weapons. So, they aren't very effective in that role. Could they deliver nukes? Sure. But Russia already had other missiles and ways that they could deliver nukes.
The fuss about Oreshnik is a bunch of PR silliness, designed to persuade the domestic population and gullible Western Putin-lovers.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 8:46 pm to doubleb
Sorry for arguing within the parameters you set yourself 
Posted on 12/18/24 at 8:52 pm to doubleb
quote:
NK certainly could attack SK of Japan if they felt that we would do nothing.
Want to highlight this absurdity right quick
He thinks not only that this might actually happen, but that it's worth billions of dollars to try to "send a message" In order to prevent it
The absurdism of both sides of the debate in this conflict is absolutely ridiculous. People cheerleading for Putin because "the other side" supports Ukraine. Ukraine supporters making absolutely brain dead arguments insisting that Ukraine is the cornerstone of the geopolitical world. We truly live in a parody of sanity.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 9:45 pm to VolSquatch
Posted on 12/18/24 at 10:22 pm to John Barron
ISW Update Dec 18
quote:
Key Takeaways:
Ukrainian forces reportedly struck a chemical plant in Rostov Oblast on December 18.
Ukraine's European allies continue to provide monetary and defense industrial support to sustain Ukraine's war effort.
Russian Chief of the General Staff Army General Valery Gerasimov heavily inflated alleged statistics about Russian territorial gains in 2024.
The Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) announced on December 18 that Russian authorities detained the suspect who planted the improvised explosive device (IED) that killed Russian Nuclear, Biological, Chemical Defense Forces (NBC) Head Lieutenant General Igor Kirillov and his aide, Major Ilya Polikarpov, in Moscow on December 17.
Russian forces recently advanced near Kupyansk, Kreminna, and Pokrovsk.
The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) is increasingly tricking conscripts into signing military service contracts to fight in Ukraine likely in an effort to generate more assault forces and maintain the tempo of Russian offensive operations in Ukraine.
Posted on 12/18/24 at 11:57 pm to cypher
Only Iranian Generals should be assassinated?
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