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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 11/21/24 at 1:29 pm to
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8182 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 1:29 pm to
Just waiting on Vol to proofread it for me...

Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42747 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 1:41 pm to
Over and over again we see people saying the US should quit being the sheriff, let Europe take care of this, and leave Ukraine alone.

All the while we see Europe waking up. European countries wanting to send troops to Ukraine. Neutral countries running to NATO for protection.

Obviously Europeans don’t believe Putin is a nothing burger. They see him for what he is, a real threat to their peace and prosperity.

We stayed out of WWII and watched what happened only to get pulled in anyway. Sitting on the sideline for that didn’t work very well.

Look at Korea where we got involved from jump. We lost a lot of good men and for what? The war was a stalemate, right,

But Stalin left Western Europe alone. He saw our resolve in Korea. Did that stop him? I’d like to think if did,

Is Ukraine like Korea? How is this going to turn out? Will it stop Russian aggression? Or eill if become a bigger and bigger war?

We don’t know, but if we sit on the sidelines that guarantees nothing. The world is too small to do nothing. I’d prefer being the Shetiff myself. I’d rather us than someone else fulfilling that role.
Posted by Spaceman Spiff
Savannah
Member since Sep 2012
20446 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 1:47 pm to
yeah, no.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16096 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 2:04 pm to
quote:

Well it has to be something negotiated at the European level and then within the alliance first. The way alliance politics is structured requires complete coherence on actions from all members, which makes the task negotiation-sensitive. And given that there exists some wildcards within the alliance such as Turkey (who are always taking maximalist positions in order to gain an immediate benefit, such as materiel) and Hungary (whose geopolitics actions have less clarity), it would require some large concessions.


Russia has given Hungary serious discounts to keep it from a pipeline for a 2nd source of natural gas for well over a decade. Who knows what sort of secret bank accounts Orban has with a constant flow from Russia.

As for Turkey, the piles of Russian cash inflow, since 2022, haven't gone beyond the upper echelons of their political structure per a neighbor whose brother is a banker in Ankara.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 2:08 pm to
Posted by Philzilla2k
Member since Oct 2017
12951 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 2:55 pm to
Pantomime war.
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4689 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 2:57 pm to
I'd believe that seeing as the US, Italy, Spain and Greece all closed their embassies for a day citing an upcoming aerial attack
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5722 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 3:25 pm to
US imposes sanctions on over 50 Russian banks, including Gazprombank

The U.S. Treasury Department imposed sanctions on dozens of Russian banks, including Gazprombank, securities registrars, and financial officials, according to a Nov. 21 statement.

The U.K. and Canada sanctioned Gazprombank during the first weeks of Russia's full-scale invasion in 2022. The U.S., however, had previously avoided strict measures against the bank.

"Today's sanctions targeting Russia's largest remaining non-designated bank, as well as dozens of other financial institutions and officials in Russia, will further diminish and degrade Russia's war machine," U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said.

The U.S. had refrained from targeting Gazprombank to allow European countries to continue paying for Russian gas supplies, as the bank is the primary channel for energy-related payments, Financial Times reported.

"This sweeping action will make it harder for the Kremlin to evade U.S. sanctions and fund and equip its military."

The outlet also noted that Russia used Gazprombank to purchase military equipment, pay soldiers, and compensate the families of those killed in the war in Ukraine.

The new U.S. sanctions will close one of Russia's few remaining avenues for international banking, barring Gazprombank from conducting transactions in dollars.

The Kyiv Independent
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 3:38 pm to
quote:

Deployment is not an easy political task, and I haven't even mentioned the internal domestic politics which might inform such decisions. Without looking it up, I'd suggest Poland and other countries closer to Europe might find favor among the population for something like deployment, while the French and German populations may be less interested without a direct threat.


Great points and very informative, thank you.

I would suggest though, that if it were really that beneficial and important for these countries that they would have found a way to get it done by now. I repeat it often, but I think you really have to look at what countries do vs what they say in these situations.... and to me, you wouldn't define this conflict as something that could eventually lead to an existential crisis for Europe based on the actions of many of these countries thus far.
Posted by VolSquatch
First Coast
Member since Sep 2023
8423 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 3:39 pm to
You need ChatGPT to do your thinking for you? It couldn't even properly process an excel document of a few hundred properties for me earlier
Posted by Lee B
Member since Dec 2018
3959 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 3:44 pm to
quote:

US imposes sanctions on over 50 Russian banks, including Gazprombank



Why only now?

I also see people posting on X and elsewhere "Trump will get Putin to stop in Ukraine by dropping the sanctions!!!" Which... just gives it all a few years pause before he rearms and does it again.
This post was edited on 11/21/24 at 8:37 pm
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16096 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 4:12 pm to
quote:

I also see people posting on X and elsewhere


Social media has revealed to me how many idiots there are in the USA and the World.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5722 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 4:20 pm to
secondary explosions, however no info yet on what was hit...
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Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

would suggest though, that if it were really that beneficial and important for these countries that they would have found a way to get it done by now. I repeat it often, but I think you really have to look at what countries do vs what they say in these situations


With respect to this point, we should remember that before this phase of the war, there was a large faction in European politics which were skeptical of the possibiltity of Russian aggression. In that larger faction, there were two camps, one which suggested that engaging Russia through trade would limit the possibility of future conflict and a group that has been more or less suggested as being very close to the Kremlin. There's a really well-sourced Washington Post article from 2022 which gives some superb background on the factional divide within the allies. The other faction in Europe was mostly made of former Soviet states who were warning about the possibility of Russian aggression and took it seriously themselves.

The Russian invasion discredited both groups who were skeptical of Russian aggression to an extreme degree but that took time for itself to play out in each country's respective domestic politics. Even inside Germany, where the 100 billion euro investment announced by Scholz in the immediate aftermath of the Russian invasion, critics in the country noted that there was a difference between the announcement and the actual movement of the plan. That is one reason why the audit of the armed forces was done. That audit took place over 4 months in 2023 and the report was finally produced this year. So nearly 3 years after the change in policy, we actually have some actionable deadlines from the Germans. This doesn't even mention that the Germans were slowplaying their own movement of materiel to Ukraine, which was criticized broadly.

I think you can rightly criticize the Europeans for the relative slowness of their change, but it is difficult to demonstrate the degree to which Europeans were surprised by Russian actions. The Brits were not surprised, but even the Brits are undertaking measures to reorganize their armed forces. Given that all this started in earnest in Feb 2022, and that republican style governments are designed so that change is slow and deliberate, but also meaningful once done, the lack of speed maybe cannot be helped.

quote:

you wouldn't define this conflict as something that could eventually lead to an existential crisis for Europe based on the actions of many of these countries thus far.


In a vacuum yes, but the measures, despite their speed, do represent the seriousness of European countries. All indications are that these countries are preparing for something towards the end of the decade and into the 2030s. I think that might reveal they are more cynical about Ukranian prospects, but also it wouldn't be useful to deploy troops while nearly all the major militaries in the region are in the middle of reorganization.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
42747 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 5:04 pm to
Trump had the right idea. Wean Europe off the American team. Force them to stand on their own two feet. Get them to do that while we still provide throw weight and leadership.

Keep the peace through a unified force. Not just US force alone.

My hope is this “adventure” drains Russia and forced them to work with Europe for peace on that continent and give up their want for an empire.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5722 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 5:11 pm to
North Korean General wounded in Ukraine's strike on Russia's Kursk Oblast – WSJ

Oleh Pavliuk, Tetyana Oliynyk — Thursday, 21 November 2024, 22:54

A high-ranking North Korean general has been wounded as a result of Ukrainian missile strikes on the territory of Russia’s Kursk Oblast. For the first time, the West confirms the injury of a high-ranking North Korean military officer.

Source: The Wall Street Journal, citing an anonymous Western official, as reported by European Pravda

Details: The WSJ source revealed that the North Korean general was injured during a recent Ukrainian strike in Kursk Oblast. The source did not provide details on how the general was injured and did not identify the North Korean high-ranking military officer.

The Wall Street Journal notes this is the first time the West has confirmed an injury to a high-ranking North Korean military figure.

Earlier, WSJ reported that North Korea had sent Colonel General Kim Yong Bok to Russia to oversee North Korean troops. Kim is considered one of North Korea’s ten most prominent military leaders and a frequent aide to Kim Jong Un.

Western media recently confirmed that Ukraine targeted a military facility in Kursk Oblast using Storm Shadow missiles.

Ukrainska Pravda
Posted by Camp Randall
The Shadow of the Valley of Death
Member since Nov 2005
17611 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 5:42 pm to
quote:

Social media has revealed to me how many idiots there are in the USA and the World.


I knew people were dumb but I really didn’t think I’d see Americans pulling for Russians, North Koreans, Iranians, and Syrians in my lifetime.
Posted by notiger1997
Metairie
Member since May 2009
61743 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 5:45 pm to
quote:

crazy4lsu


I appreciate all of your insight on subjects such as this.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26821 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 5:48 pm to
quote:

Western media recently confirmed that Ukraine targeted a military facility in Kursk Oblast using Storm Shadow missiles.



There were reports that the NORK training and assembly base was targeted.
Posted by texag7
College Station
Member since Apr 2014
41414 posts
Posted on 11/21/24 at 6:17 pm to
quote:

Social media has revealed to me how many idiots there are in the USA and the World.


I agree. Lots of nuts. One of them even tried to kill our next President

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