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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 10/9/24 at 10:10 am to doubleb
Posted on 10/9/24 at 10:10 am to doubleb
quote:Nah.
You have provided him with an excuse
I'm just not willing to provide us with one.
quote:
It also never should have been started. Yet here we are.
---
Amen.
Russia (not just Putin) told the entire world ... over and over and over again ... that Ukraine (and/or Georgia) to NATO would mean war. It was the red line. Biden (aka Jake Sullivan) thought it would be cool to poke the Russian rattlesnake.
Surprise-Surprise-Surprise! The Russian rattlesnake struck. It bit. Ukraine was the victim.
You'd have to be one uninformed, naive, rote, drone not to understand that.
1
Posted on 10/9/24 at 11:05 am to NC_Tigah
If Ukraine acting as an independent country and trying to cozy up to Europe and the West is provoking a rattlesnake then so be it.
It was in their best interest to do so just as Poland, E Germany and the other Soviet bloc nations did.
So Putin wants to maintain control and he takes Crimes and openly sends troops into the Donbas. He waits and sees that takeover went very well so he goes for the whole enchilada because Ukraine wanted NATO wanted protection.
Rattlesnakes can sneak up and bite too, they don’t have to be provoked.
It was in their best interest to do so just as Poland, E Germany and the other Soviet bloc nations did.
So Putin wants to maintain control and he takes Crimes and openly sends troops into the Donbas. He waits and sees that takeover went very well so he goes for the whole enchilada because Ukraine wanted NATO wanted protection.
Rattlesnakes can sneak up and bite too, they don’t have to be provoked.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 11:19 am to doubleb
quote:Yep, happens all the time. The sneaky bastards see someone across a field, stalk them, then crawl up and take a nip. A perfect premise for this thread.
Rattlesnakes can sneak up and bite too
Posted on 10/9/24 at 12:02 pm to doubleb
quote:
It was in their best interest to do so
Was it though? Hindsight and all.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 2:46 pm to doubleb
quote:
Ukraine wanted NATO wanted protection.
Wrong, it wanted to join the EU. Public was against joining NATO until after Feb 22, 2022. This is just like Sweden and Finland with public sentiment to join NATO. Full scale invasion was a huge mistake by Russia.
This makes Putin a COUILLON
Posted on 10/9/24 at 3:17 pm to CitizenK
Ukraine hits Russian base storing Shahed drones in Krasnodar Krai, military claims
by Kateryna Denisova October 9, 2024 10:01 PM
Ukraine's military struck a base storing Iranian Shahed-type drones Russia uses for daily attacks against Ukraine near the village of Oktyabrsky in Russia's Kranodar Krai on Oct. 9, the General Staff reported.
Tehran has provided Moscow with thousands of Shahed kamikaze drones since the start of the all-out war. Russia attacked Ukraine with more than 1,300 such drones in September, launching them on a daily basis for an entire month.
About 400 attack drones were reportedly stored at the Russian base.
According to the statement, the attack was carried out by Ukraine's Navy and units of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU).
The subsequent detonation was recorded after the attack, the General Staff said.
"According to the results of objective control, an accurate hit on the target was recorded," the military said, without elaborating on the scale of the damage.
The Kyiv Independent
by Kateryna Denisova October 9, 2024 10:01 PM
Ukraine's military struck a base storing Iranian Shahed-type drones Russia uses for daily attacks against Ukraine near the village of Oktyabrsky in Russia's Kranodar Krai on Oct. 9, the General Staff reported.
Tehran has provided Moscow with thousands of Shahed kamikaze drones since the start of the all-out war. Russia attacked Ukraine with more than 1,300 such drones in September, launching them on a daily basis for an entire month.
About 400 attack drones were reportedly stored at the Russian base.
According to the statement, the attack was carried out by Ukraine's Navy and units of the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU).
The subsequent detonation was recorded after the attack, the General Staff said.
"According to the results of objective control, an accurate hit on the target was recorded," the military said, without elaborating on the scale of the damage.
The Kyiv Independent
Posted on 10/9/24 at 3:28 pm to cypher
Posted on 10/9/24 at 3:33 pm to CitizenK
quote:
Ukraine wanted NATO wanted protection.
---
Wrong, it wanted to join the EU.
Were that true, Crimea would still be Ukrainian and there would be no war.
Unfortunately of course, it isn't.
In 2014, after we aided the overthrow of Ukraine's President, the prospect of Crimean Naval Bases going to NATO comprised the overarching rationale/excuse for Russia walking into Crimea. It was a major reason the Navy there was in complete cooperation.
In September 2020 Zelenskyy approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, which provided "for the development of a distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO."
A month later, he met with British PM Boris"WeNeedToPressPutin"Johnson in London, and they laid out a roadmap to NATO membership.
Throughout 2021, NATO was openly forwarded as a Ukrainian goal, culminating in Biden's December proclamation that Ukraine-to-NATO was fully in the hands of Kyiv.
Biden's December proclamation, in the face of 1 1/2 decades of Russian assurances that Ukraine-to-NATO would mean war, and with Russian troops massing on the border, was a lit match tossed into a powder keg. There is no way that proclamation was not understood by the US, UK, and Russia as an incitement to war.
Zelenskyy may have been the poker table patsy. I'd propose, had Zelenskyy actually understood what the West and Russia did, he would have backed away from the NATO stuff at lightning speed.
This post was edited on 10/9/24 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 10/9/24 at 4:08 pm to NC_Tigah
On 7 February 2019, the Verkhovna Rada voted 334 to 17 to amend the constitution to state Ukraine's strategic objectives as joining the European Union and NATO.
Zelenskyy assumed office on May 20, 2019
Everything else is bullshite.
Zelenskyy assumed office on May 20, 2019
Everything else is bullshite.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 5:12 pm to cypher
Does Russia have any air defense systems left? It seems like Ukraine can hit just about anything they want to now except for Moscow.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 6:09 pm to notiger1997
quote:
Does Russia have any air defense systems left? It seems like Ukraine can hit just about anything they want to now except for Moscow.
Russia's air defense systems were designed to defend against ballistic and cruise missiles. Their radar systems are not near accurate enough to begin with. their tech might have been good enough in the 1980's but that was 40 years ago.
Moskva was sunk because it's air defense could only look at 180 degrees, not 360 degrees.
Russia's weaponry has not lived up to his pre 2022 hype.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 7:22 pm to CitizenK
[link=(/www.politico.com/news/2024/10/09/russia-ukraine-war-gains-losses-00183149)]LINK 600k Russian casualties per Politico[/link]
Russia has made slow but steady gains in recent weeks against Ukraine but at a steep cost — the bloodiest month in the nearly three-year war, U.S. officials said Wednesday.
Casualties from the offensives in the Donbas have brought Russia’s total number of dead and wounded to over 600,000, according to officials granted anonymity to brief reporters at the Pentagon on the course of the war.
Russia has made slow but steady gains in recent weeks against Ukraine but at a steep cost — the bloodiest month in the nearly three-year war, U.S. officials said Wednesday.
Casualties from the offensives in the Donbas have brought Russia’s total number of dead and wounded to over 600,000, according to officials granted anonymity to brief reporters at the Pentagon on the course of the war.
This post was edited on 10/9/24 at 7:24 pm
Posted on 10/9/24 at 7:33 pm to cypher
quote:I don't do bullshite.
Everything else is bullshite.
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy approved the country’s new National Security Strategy, which provides for the development of a distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO in September 2020. LINK
December 9, 2021: Biden assures Zelenskiy that NATO membership in Ukraine's hands, Kyiv says. LINK
Posted on 10/9/24 at 7:48 pm to NC_Tigah
Ukrsine had been trying to get into NATO for years before Zelensky was elected. He just rubber stamped what several of his predecessors had done.
Biden just reinforced the American position that Ukraine was a sovereign nation and should be involved in negotiations involving their fate. He also said that Ukraine had things to do if they wanted in NATO. This was nothing new.
Biden just reinforced the American position that Ukraine was a sovereign nation and should be involved in negotiations involving their fate. He also said that Ukraine had things to do if they wanted in NATO. This was nothing new.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 8:28 pm to doubleb
quote:
Ukrsine had been trying to get into NATO for years before Zelensky was elected. He just rubber stamped what several of his predecessors had done.
and?
Seriously, what did you intend to offer to the conversation with that set of already observed observations?
Obviously Z was not in office in 2008 during the Bucharest Summit.
Obviously Z was not in office in 2014 when Ukraines dalliances with NATO cost it Crimea. He was probably playing piano with his d*** and dancing in stilettos at that time.
That is kind of the point. Putin didn't respect Z, and didn't see him as reliable. The west saw him as someone it could manipulate. Z was just trying to do his job. He chased the NATO carrot thinking if he could just catch it, all would be fine. Yet Johnson and Biden kept it just out of reach. They knew the weight of an eventual Ukraine-NATO union would trigger Russia. They were right.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 8:31 pm to doubleb
Who are you voting for next month?
Posted on 10/9/24 at 8:34 pm to texag7
Same guy I voted for on 2016, and 2020. I’m hard headed. Donald Trump
Posted on 10/9/24 at 8:36 pm to CitizenK
quote:
My Russian friend said that Trump is actually no friend of Putin, quite the opposite. He is very well connected.
What’s the point of being sarcastic? Outside of politicians, the average American forgot about this war long ago. I guess that’s a winning strategy in the minds of some people.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 8:39 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Seriously, what did you intend to offer to the conversation with that set of already observed observations?
That Zelensky didn’t create the issue of Ukrsine getting in NATO. You inferred he did.
quote:
That is kind of the point. Putin didn't respect Z, and didn't see him as reliable. The west saw him as someone it could manipulate. Z was just trying to do his job. He chased the NATO carrot thinking if he could just catch it, all would be fine. Yet Johnson and Biden kept it just out of reach. They knew the weight of an eventual Ukraine-NATO union would trigger Russia. They were right.
You believe they were dangling the carrot. That was conventional wisdom, right? So why give Putin the NATO excuse. He had to know Ukraine wasn’t getting into NATO, right?
But he launched a massive invasion anyway. The guy is responsible for the deaths of thousands.
Posted on 10/9/24 at 8:40 pm to gizmothepug
ISW Update Oct 9th
quote:
The Russian military command has likely ordered Russian forces to conduct a relatively high tempo of mechanized assaults in Ukraine to pursue significant tactical advances before muddy ground conditions in fall 2024 constrain mechanized maneuver. Poor weather conditions in fall 2024 and early winter 2024-2025 will likely complicate and constrain both mechanized and infantry maneuver, but Russian forces may seek to maintain their consistent offensive pressure in eastern Ukraine despite these difficulties.
US European Command (EUCOM) Commander and NATO Supreme Allied Commander Europe (SACEUR) General Christopher Cavoli reportedly stated that the United States is withholding several US weapon systems and other military communications networks from Ukraine that could support Ukraine's war effort.
South Korean Defense Minister Kim Yong-hyun stated on October 8 that a limited number of North Korean military personnel are likely operating near occupied Donetsk City.
Russian illegal arms dealer and Ulyanovsk Oblast parliamentarian Viktor Bout reportedly helped broker a deal for Russia to sell arms worth $10 million to Yemen's Houthi rebels in August 2024 amid increasing reports of potential Russian arms transfers to the Houthis and deepening Russo-Iranian cooperation.
Russia banned partially-encrypted communications platform Discord on October 8, likely degrading some frontline Russian forces' ad-hoc communications in the near term.
Russian forces continue to use chemical weapons in Ukraine in a continued apparent violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC), to which Russia is a party.
Russian forces recently advanced near Kreminna, Siversk, Toretsk, Pokrovsk, and Robotyne.
Ukrainian Kharkiv Group of Forces Spokesperson Vitaliy Sarantsev stated on October 8 that Russian forces may have exhausted their preexisting stocks of aerial bombs for glide bomb strikes.
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