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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 9/26/24 at 7:26 am to Auburn1968
Posted on 9/26/24 at 7:26 am to Auburn1968
quote:
Glad that you asked. America's top retired F16 ace said he'd like to volunteer.
We must remember that politards don't even know how to recognize an actual alpha male
1
Posted on 9/26/24 at 7:51 am to CitizenK
"Ukraine is gone"
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 9/26/24 at 8:23 am to Lee B
quote:
“Biden and Kamala allowed this to happen by feeding Zelenskyy money and munitions like no country has ever seen before,”
Putin invaded Ukraine months before western aid ramped up.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 8:38 am to cypher
quote:
"Ukraine is gone"
For those of us who held out some belief (hope?) that Trump wasn't a true Putin stooge, this latest removes any doubt. If Trump wins, Russia gets Ukraine and the US will not support NATO.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 9:04 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Trump says the quiet part out loud. You guys who thought he.would take a hard line against.Russia were projecting your own wishful thinking on to him. You can't say he didn't warn you.
Yes, I'm sure that we have a lot of posters in here who will refuse to acknowledge reality, but the political situation has changed significantly in recent months, and the die was fully cast this week.
Zelensky came to the US, intending to meet with Biden and Harris first (because he needs aid from the US right now), and then to meet with Trump. I have no doubt that he planned to praise Trump to the skies for the help that the US gave Ukraine during the Trump administration.
But Trump was offended that Zelensky met with the Democrats first. He viewed this as Zelensky failing his last chance. So, Trump canceled his scheduled meeting with Zelensky, and then he instructed Speaker Johnson to cancel his meeting with Zelensky as well.
It's over, folks.
A Trump victory will mean a quick end to US support for Ukraine. Trump is now fully on Russia's side.
Some people might say that the die was cast with the choice of Vance as his running mate.
But Mike Pompeo isn't the person whispering in Trump's ear lately. It's been wackos like Laura Loomer who are traveling with Trump as he campaigns. Trump isn't making ambiguous statements anymore.
_________________________________________________________
The US political implications are somewhat minimal. Yes, Zelensky is popular with the American public, and Russia is overwhelmingly viewed as an enemy. In theory, Trump choosing Russia over Ukraine could hurt him with voters, but the reality is that very few American voters care very much about this conflict -- it's very, very far down the list of issues that matter to voters as they go to the polls.
But, for Ukraine, the future now looks bleak in the event of a Trump victory. They would keep fighting, to be sure, but what if Trump goes so far as to remove US sanctions on Russia? At that point, the idea that Russia would eventually run out of money would end. If US aid stops, I've no doubt that European allies would try to step up and help more, but the gap left by the halting of US aid would be far too big for the Euros to fill.
________________________________________________________
The implications for this thread are another matter. Now that the conflict has explicitly become a partisan issue, the political trolling will get much, much more intense.
For anyone who cares: I do not support either Trump or Harris. I will vote 3rd party in this presidential election.
But I'm also not sure that I'm willing to wade through pages and pages of trolling every day. It may be time for me to quit this thread until after the election.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 9:05 am to GOP_Tiger
I mean, there are already pages and pages of trolling every day. It's just going to get a lot worse.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 9:07 am to GOP_Tiger
I look forward to your posts sir. Do not leave the thread. Just stay out of the politics.
I’m voting Trump, but I am very disappointed in his stance too. Ronald Reagan would not do this.
I’m voting Trump, but I am very disappointed in his stance too. Ronald Reagan would not do this.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 9:12 am to doubleb
I'm voting for Trump as well, not because I think he will be great for the country, but because the alternative will be worse...lesser of two evils.
I agree with GOP, this thread has gone political, and it will get worse as the election approaches.
I agree with GOP, this thread has gone political, and it will get worse as the election approaches.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 9:17 am to Chromdome35
quote:
I agree with GOP, this thread has gone political, and it will get worse as the election approaches.
I suggest that all of us that come here for war news and to discuss war events do their best to ignore the trolls. We all have our opinions in the cause of the war. Those opinions have been shared, discussed, and beaten to death.
I’m not pointing fingers, I am guilty too. Let’s stick to the war and war news please.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 9:47 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
But Trump was offended that Zelensky met with the Democrats first.
So Zelensky should skip the PRESENT administration and meet with a nominee first?
What if Trump was the incumbent and he met with the opposing nominee first?
We can't have a country (and world) based on appeasing one dude's ego!
This post was edited on 9/26/24 at 9:48 am
Posted on 9/26/24 at 9:54 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
My girlfriend is from Kiev. We haven’t talked about it, but I don’t think she has any desire to go back.
You and your girlfriend should work on your communications.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 9:56 am to doubleb
quote:
quote:
I agree with GOP, this thread has gone political, and it will get worse as the election approaches.
I suggest that all of us that come here for war news and to discuss war events do their best to ignore the trolls. We all have our opinions in the cause of the war. Those opinions have been shared, discussed, and beaten to death.
I’m not pointing fingers, I am guilty too. Let’s stick to the war and war news please.
War is the failure of politics. In no way is it ever the absence of politics. To some point it is inevitable, as this development highlights.
But there's a difference between outright trolling and intelligent, productive discussion (especially when the trolling might as well just be cut-and-paste stuff it's so repetitive and only done to derail things and aggravate posters for a laugh.
Let the trolls starve and they get bored and go elsewhere where they get traction.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 10:02 am to Auburn1968
quote:
Glad that you asked. America's top retired F16 ace said he'd like to volunteer.
And what’s the status on that? I think we know.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 10:04 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
A Trump victory
An unforced error on Trump's part. He'll get all the Q Tard vote but he's losing a lot of actual conservatives. He went full Ronulan of 2012 election cycle.
This post was edited on 9/26/24 at 12:33 pm
Posted on 9/26/24 at 10:25 am to Lee B
quote:
Zelensky's line about Biden is actually perfect;
"It seems he wants Ukraine to win, just not at the expense of Russia losing."
This was kind of reverberating in my brain as I woke up this morning...
along with my Vietnam Vet uncle who says "we couldn't win in Vietnam, because we weren't trying to win, we were fighting to get a tie. The other side was fighting to win."
We (the US, the West... with the exception of Poland) don't want full-out WWIII, so we will not commit to defeating Russia. We will not even really let Ukraine commit to defeating Russia.
So... that means Ukraine ultimately at some point loses.
And it means anybody else who possibly feels constrained by international norms and laws can just ignore them, too... because the US and the West does not want to risk all-out WWIII.
So the world is back to the 19th Century... state-sanctioned piracy (or at least shipping disruptions) is already rearing its head, again, with the Houthis, and Iran in the Persian Gulf... China is gearing up to project itself as a naval power into shipping lanes and screw with Japan and other Asian countries that are competition for its economy. Who knows what insanity India will get up to...
The American Century was nice while it lasted... but it seems over.
There's a guy (a Russian ex-pat, ironically enough) named Peter Turchin who was pioneered a field of study called Cliodynamics, which is based on history being a cycle that can be predicted with mathematical analysis. In the mid-2010s, when people were freaking out at the world seemingly getting screwier all of a sudden, he said "wait until 2020... that's when it will get really nuts, and increasingly violent." By the time 2020 rolled around I thought it strange that the news outlets where I'd discovered him were not talking to him to say "well, you were right." Maybe they're too freaked out.
Nature; Cliodynamics - Human Cycles, History as Science
Posted on 9/26/24 at 10:50 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
But, for Ukraine, the future now looks bleak in the event of a Trump victory. They would keep fighting, to be sure, but what if Trump goes so far as to remove US sanctions on Russia? At that point, the idea that Russia would eventually run out of money would end. If US aid stops, I've no doubt that European allies would try to step up and help more, but the gap left by the halting of US aid would be far too big for the Euros to fill.
A Trump Victory also means... what for NATO? Even if he doesn't (or can't) pull the US out of NATO, he can choose not to come to the aid of countries that invoke Article 5... so now what the Baltic states have always feared is more than possible. Putin can roll into them, next, and Poland will be excited to rush to their side... but what's Orban going to be up to?
Japan is militarizing itself and abandoning pacificism because it sees the writing on the wall regarding its neighbors China and Russia, who it will be fighting over various islands in either direction in the next few years, probably.
I think the West should organize and transition to a wartime economy in preparation. That solves a lot of economic issues, and if it's all for nothing, nothing is lost.
This post was edited on 9/26/24 at 10:51 am
Posted on 9/26/24 at 11:20 am to TBoy
quote:
US will not support NATO.
That should have happened 25 plus years ago.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 11:51 am to El Segundo Guy
The United States provides Ukraine with JSOW long-range bombs
The United States has approved the transfer of Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW) bombs capable of hitting targets at a distance of 130 kilometers.
The statement was published on the White House website.
Within a new $7.9 billion military aid package, Ukraine will receive AGM-154 JSOW precision-guided bombs for the first time.
details of Joint Standoff Weapon with video...
Militarnyi
The United States has approved the transfer of Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW) bombs capable of hitting targets at a distance of 130 kilometers.
The statement was published on the White House website.
Within a new $7.9 billion military aid package, Ukraine will receive AGM-154 JSOW precision-guided bombs for the first time.
details of Joint Standoff Weapon with video...
Militarnyi
This post was edited on 9/26/24 at 11:54 am
Posted on 9/26/24 at 12:30 pm to Lee B
quote:
if it's all for nothing, nothing is lost.
Uh. Nothing except trillions of dollars of wealth down the drain.
Investing money in infrastructure, research, education, Healthcare, trade, manufacturing, etc grows the economy permanently, and leads to a higher standard of living. And, interestingly....fewer wars.
Spending money on bombs and tanks and things that go Boom gives the economy a quick sugar high. But long term growth, infrastructure, demographics, innovation, they all suffer in a war time economy. And wars become cyclical and almost always lead to.....more wars!
That's why I think Russia should go home and rejoin the world economy. They could spend money on paved roads and indoor plumbing, rather than wasting a generation trying to capture more Ukrainian farm land.
And then another generation building back what they destroyed to achieve their goals.
It's madness.
Posted on 9/26/24 at 12:58 pm to Lee B
Today Japan sent its first warship through the Taiwan Strait since WW2. North Korea pushed them to ramp up their military spending. China is now doing everything they can to disrupt Japan’s massive fishing industry.
Most people don’t realize that Japan is now 3rd in defense spending behind the US and China.
Most people don’t realize that Japan is now 3rd in defense spending behind the US and China.
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