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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 7/7/24 at 11:31 pm to CitizenK
Posted on 7/7/24 at 11:31 pm to CitizenK
(Edited to add -> hey, you're the one who first posted Le Pen's comments about Ukraine here a couple of days ago)
Le Pen (a Putin buddy) herself, just a couple of days ago, said...
CNN 2024/07/05 - Marine Le Pen promises French far right will rein in aid to Ukraine
Marine Le Pen, figurehead of the French far-right National Rally (RN) party, vowed a prime minister from her party would prevent Kyiv using French-supplied long-range weapons to strike inside Russia and would stymie French President Emmanuel Macron’s suggestion he might put French boots on Ukrainian soil.
“If Emmanuel Macron wants to send troops to Ukraine and the prime minister is against it, then there are no troops sent to Ukraine,” she told CNN. “The prime minister has the final say.”
Barbella is the young TikTok-savvy new face on the party who doesn't have a history of saying awful things and was hoped to win over people who are put off by Le Pen and the older RN politicians.
It didn't work. He's just seen as Le Pen's puppet... what she says matters more than what he says, and she can't help but saying things she shouldn't (thankfully).
Meanwhile, the New Popular Front (NFP) posted this as their election pledge:
On the international stage, the New Popular Front asserts that it wants to "defend Ukraine and peace on the European continent."
"The delivery of necessary weapons", "the cancellation of Ukraine's foreign debt", "the seizure of the assets of oligarchs who contribute to the Russian war effort" and the "sending of peacekeepers to secure nuclear power plants" are among the measures outlined.
EURONEWS: "Where does the French Left stand on immigration, Ukraine and climate policy?
That's interesting, since it includes groups like France Unbowed (LFI) and the Communists and Socialists who previously voted against aid to Ukraine in Parliament... but they did so knowing it would pass anyway because Macron's party held a clear majority (RN abstained from the vote).
I saw some poll that said the French public supported assistance to Ukraine, even Macron's bid to send troops in a non-combat capacity. I guess that political reality changed their positions.
Le Pen (a Putin buddy) herself, just a couple of days ago, said...
CNN 2024/07/05 - Marine Le Pen promises French far right will rein in aid to Ukraine
Marine Le Pen, figurehead of the French far-right National Rally (RN) party, vowed a prime minister from her party would prevent Kyiv using French-supplied long-range weapons to strike inside Russia and would stymie French President Emmanuel Macron’s suggestion he might put French boots on Ukrainian soil.
“If Emmanuel Macron wants to send troops to Ukraine and the prime minister is against it, then there are no troops sent to Ukraine,” she told CNN. “The prime minister has the final say.”
Barbella is the young TikTok-savvy new face on the party who doesn't have a history of saying awful things and was hoped to win over people who are put off by Le Pen and the older RN politicians.
It didn't work. He's just seen as Le Pen's puppet... what she says matters more than what he says, and she can't help but saying things she shouldn't (thankfully).
Meanwhile, the New Popular Front (NFP) posted this as their election pledge:
On the international stage, the New Popular Front asserts that it wants to "defend Ukraine and peace on the European continent."
"The delivery of necessary weapons", "the cancellation of Ukraine's foreign debt", "the seizure of the assets of oligarchs who contribute to the Russian war effort" and the "sending of peacekeepers to secure nuclear power plants" are among the measures outlined.
EURONEWS: "Where does the French Left stand on immigration, Ukraine and climate policy?
That's interesting, since it includes groups like France Unbowed (LFI) and the Communists and Socialists who previously voted against aid to Ukraine in Parliament... but they did so knowing it would pass anyway because Macron's party held a clear majority (RN abstained from the vote).
I saw some poll that said the French public supported assistance to Ukraine, even Macron's bid to send troops in a non-combat capacity. I guess that political reality changed their positions.
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 12:16 am
2
Posted on 7/7/24 at 11:37 pm to CitizenK
quote:
FWIW, the most conservative of European parties are about equivalent to the Democrat Party here.
Yes... we can't put our frame of our left and right onto European countries... they are not us, they have their systems and long histories and their societies function a bit differently,
quote:
France has long history of being anti Jewish as well.
Europe has a long history of being anti-Jewish... the Spanish Inquisition, The Edict of Expulsion in England in 1290, the Pograms in France and Germany, the Strasbourg Massacre...
Posted on 7/7/24 at 11:53 pm to Lee B
We've done it, now (or... a long time ago, I guess...)!
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Posted on 7/8/24 at 5:12 am to Lee B
quote:Exactly. If Le Pen had kept her mouth shut about Ukraine last week, the results of this election would probably be very different. But no, the boost she got from the first election went to her pin head and she started giving policy decisions before she had a majority. That scared the left and moderates and the result was a monumental turnout.
He's just seen as Le Pen's puppet... what she says matters more than what he says, and she can't help but saying things she shouldn't (thankfully).
Incredibly stupid. Putin has to be furious and may be looking for another puppet in France now.
The Putin Wing of French politics hasn't had a shot at governing the country like this in forever. If Le Pen had played it smart and just wore beige and sat in the back of the room last week, she may be in charge today. But there's a reason she is so closely aligned with the Kremlin.
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 5:57 am
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:00 am to Coeur du Tigre
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:06 am to cypher
Kyiv death toll reaches 10 as two civilians die after being taken to hospital; some still trapped under rubble – photos
Iryna Balachuk — Monday, 8 July 2024, 14:55
Ten people were killed and 35 more injured in a Russian missile attack on Kyiv on 8 July. There may be people under the rubble of the Okhmatdyt children's hospital.
Source: Vitali Klitschko, the Mayor of Kyiv, on Telegram; Serhii Popko, Head of Kyiv City Military Administration (KCMA); Ukraine's Interior Minister Ihor Klymenko on the air of the national joint 24/7 newscast; Ukraine’s State Emergency Service (SES) on Facebook; Ukrainian Prosecutor General’s Office (PGO) on Telegram
Ukrainska Pravda
Iryna Balachuk — Monday, 8 July 2024, 14:55
Ten people were killed and 35 more injured in a Russian missile attack on Kyiv on 8 July. There may be people under the rubble of the Okhmatdyt children's hospital.
Source: Vitali Klitschko, the Mayor of Kyiv, on Telegram; Serhii Popko, Head of Kyiv City Military Administration (KCMA); Ukraine's Interior Minister Ihor Klymenko on the air of the national joint 24/7 newscast; Ukraine’s State Emergency Service (SES) on Facebook; Ukrainian Prosecutor General’s Office (PGO) on Telegram
Ukrainska Pravda
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:09 am to CitizenK
quote:
WIW, the most conservative of European parties are about equivalent to the Democrat Party here
In more ways than one.
Le Pen's conservative party received the most raw votes, beating the next closest by over 10%, but received the third most seats in Parliament.
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:11 am to cypher
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 8 July 2024
The Academic Council of the private European University in St Petersburg decided on 19 June to close the Faculty of Political Sciences at the University. In 2016 the University was deprived of its licence after a complaint from Duma deputy Vitaly Milonov, who objected to a Gender Studies Centre at the university. He also claimed that such studies could be used to prepare supporters for a colour revolution.
The university appealed to Putin to intervene and its licence was later returned. However, in 2023 the university was being investigated for "extremism" (a catch-all term used by the Russian authorities to describe any activity potentially critical of the Kremlin). The university has been a centre of academic freedom and hence an irritant to the authorities following the turn to greater authoritarianism since Putin's return to the presidency in 2012 and the invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.
Since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the Presidential Administration has taken closer control of universities. It has imposed an obligatory course on the Foundations of Russian Statehood and dismissed some academics critical of the war. Various universities have closed programmes of studies that the Kremlin might deem to be subversive.
Isolation since the launch of the war has likely damaged Russian science. A recent article in Vedomosti reported on a survey made by Nature magazine of the top 500 scientific research institutions in the world. Over the last 12 months the Russian Academy of Sciences dropped 23 places from 71st to 94th. Moscow State University also dropped in the rankings and now stands at 420th. Discussions at the St Petersburg International Legal Forum held at the end of June advocated a more obscurantist approach towards education with some participants criticising the idea of learning foreign languages and supporting the replacement of "anti-state" textbooks.
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 8 July 2024
The Academic Council of the private European University in St Petersburg decided on 19 June to close the Faculty of Political Sciences at the University. In 2016 the University was deprived of its licence after a complaint from Duma deputy Vitaly Milonov, who objected to a Gender Studies Centre at the university. He also claimed that such studies could be used to prepare supporters for a colour revolution.
The university appealed to Putin to intervene and its licence was later returned. However, in 2023 the university was being investigated for "extremism" (a catch-all term used by the Russian authorities to describe any activity potentially critical of the Kremlin). The university has been a centre of academic freedom and hence an irritant to the authorities following the turn to greater authoritarianism since Putin's return to the presidency in 2012 and the invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.
Since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the Presidential Administration has taken closer control of universities. It has imposed an obligatory course on the Foundations of Russian Statehood and dismissed some academics critical of the war. Various universities have closed programmes of studies that the Kremlin might deem to be subversive.
Isolation since the launch of the war has likely damaged Russian science. A recent article in Vedomosti reported on a survey made by Nature magazine of the top 500 scientific research institutions in the world. Over the last 12 months the Russian Academy of Sciences dropped 23 places from 71st to 94th. Moscow State University also dropped in the rankings and now stands at 420th. Discussions at the St Petersburg International Legal Forum held at the end of June advocated a more obscurantist approach towards education with some participants criticising the idea of learning foreign languages and supporting the replacement of "anti-state" textbooks.
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:16 am to VolSquatch
quote:
Le Pen's conservative party received the most raw votes, beating the next closest by over 10%, but received the third most seats in Parliament.
But not in each district. This is why NYC controls NY State
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:26 am to cypher
quote:
Since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, the Presidential Administration has taken closer control of universities. It has imposed an obligatory course on the Foundations of Russian Statehood and dismissed some academics critical of the war. Various universities have closed programmes of studies that the Kremlin might deem to be subversive.
Isolation since the launch of the war has likely damaged Russian science. A recent article in Vedomosti reported on a survey made by Nature magazine of the top 500 scientific research institutions in the world. Over the last 12 months the Russian Academy of Sciences dropped 23 places from 71st to 94th. Moscow State University also dropped in the rankings and now stands at 420th. Discussions at the St Petersburg International Legal Forum held at the end of June advocated a more obscurantist approach towards education with some participants criticising the idea of learning foreign languages and supporting the replacement of "anti-state" textbooks.
Classic Russia. Also a stark reminder to Ukraine and elsewhere that being ruled by Russia means turning away from knowledge, truth, research, etc. Russia is deep into the promotion of a modern form of dark age. Those that support Russia around the world do this too.
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:32 am to CitizenK
quote:
But not in each district. This is why NYC controls NY State
What the do you think my "In more ways than one" comment meant?
Since I have to spell it out, the democrats in the US usually win the popular vote but not necessarily the election. Its the exact same concept.
Posted on 7/8/24 at 7:44 am to TBoy
quote:
Classic Russia. Also a stark reminder to Ukraine and elsewhere that being ruled by Russia means turning away from knowledge, truth, research, etc. Russia is deep into the promotion of a modern form of dark age. Those that support Russia around the world do this too.
You are not wrong. The Enlightenment basically skipped over Russia. There have certainly been many great Russian artists and individual thinkers but collectively the country has never taken that leap forward. That’s why people like Lima Whiskey love it. It represented this atavistic ideal of a society “uncorrupted” by western liberal ideas of individualism and modernity. And I don’t mean liberalism like today’s Columbia university, I mean liberalism like the idea of individual freedom versus the collectivism of a theocracy or subservience to a monarchy.
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 7:48 am
Posted on 7/8/24 at 8:18 am to REG861
The photos of the kids with cancer getting bombed are heartbreaking.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 7/8/24 at 8:19 am to REG861
As exhibited by 1/3 of them never having indoor bathrooms
Posted on 7/8/24 at 8:22 am to GOP_Tiger
Poland is ready to escalate a bit. They now appear to be ready to use their own air defense to shoot down Russian missiles that are close enough to their territory to hit.
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If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 7/8/24 at 9:06 am to GOP_Tiger
Poles aren’t gonna sit around and wait to take action. They understand the consequences of waiting around to act, something we don’t seem to understand in the West.
Posted on 7/8/24 at 9:08 am to CitizenK
what is the endgame for Russia in this war and will it ever end?
Posted on 7/8/24 at 10:04 am to CitizenK
quote:
quote:
Le Pen's conservative party received the most raw votes, beating the next closest by over 10%, but received the third most seats in Parliament.
But not in each district. This is why NYC controls NY State
Yes, I see lots of Americans screaming on X that the "most votes should win," about this outcome, and people reminding them that without the Electoral College (which in effect functions similarly to Parliament in elections) New York and Los Angeles and a few other megacities would completely control the US in raw votes.
But we're drifting away from thread topic here...
Posted on 7/8/24 at 10:05 am to nicholastiger
kill as many Ukranians as possible until their government submits to Russian control or annexation
This post was edited on 7/8/24 at 10:06 am
Posted on 7/8/24 at 10:13 am to nicholastiger
quote:
what is the endgame for Russia in this war
We have been asking the Russian troll farm bots (Sir Winston, Lima Whiskey, and others) this question for the past two years. No one knows.
Plan A was to sponsor a civil war in 2014 that would lead to a popular uprising and the overthrow of the electred government in Kiev. Failure.
Plan B was the full invasion, which was supposed to capture Kiev and install a puppet government. Failure.
Plan C was to control the Black Sea and choke off grain exports that would set off an international food crisis and place presure on Ukraine to submit. And to convince a divided US congress to stop sending aid. Failure
Plan D was a grinding advance across eastern Ukraine in the summer of 2022 to capture 4 complete Oblasts and their capitals. Then sue for a peace which would turn Ukraine into a rump state without the ability to export commoditiies or field a military, or join the EU, or join any defensive alliances. Failure.
Plan E seems to be a war of attrition using Iranian and North Korean arms to buy time for the US election and hopefully get a compromised US president who will force Ukraine to take some sort of face saving deal for both sides. This one has yet to play out.
The problem is that Russia didn't have these backup plans in place. They were confident of an easy victory, and really don't have a way to prosecute the war that they find themselves in.
quote:
will it ever end?
Yes. It ends now basically one of two ways:
One is that Russia finally runs out of steam (barrels, armor, shells, men, money, political will). Which will basically cause a change of regime in Moscow. Which brings its own problems in terms of Asian stability.
The other way is that Ukraine loses its support from the West. And is forced to take a bad deal to cease hostilites. This brings its own set of problems as well. As the situation will not be settled. It will just be the next war waiting to happen all over again.
There is no way to put the genie back in the bottle. This war doesn't have a pretty end with a victory parade and we all go back to the way things were.
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