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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 7/1/24 at 5:59 am to doubleb
Posted on 7/1/24 at 5:59 am to doubleb
quote:
Russia launched an offensive, and for the most part it was repulsed
For the most part it wasn’t much of an offensive, at least not really even close to the Ukrainian counter offensive in terms of resource allocation
quote:
though many believed Ukraine was short of weapons and men.
Most in here don’t think that’s an issue though.
quote:
You don’t call that positive news?
That’s been the status of the conflict for the past couple of weeks, so while positive I don’t think it’s really “news”
Posted on 7/1/24 at 7:23 am to VolSquatch
Thank you for your efforts in this thread - you are truly in the belly of the beast here
Posted on 7/1/24 at 7:51 am to SirWinston
quote:
Thank you for your efforts in this thread - you are truly in the belly of the beast here
I'm mostly just asking questions, trying to get people to realize the road some of their positions will lead us down.
Also exposing some who have an agenda. There are 3-4 posters who won't try to argue substance with anyone who puts up an ounce of resistance or does even miniscule research. They would rather focus on the trolls who say dumb shite like "X will fall in Y days" because its an easy win and makes them look good/feel better about themselves.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 8:49 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
It would seem Trump vs Biden has significant outcome determinative ramifications in terms of "the Russian invasion of Ukraine." Unfortunately, the outcome issue was not effectively broached by the debate mods.
Trump has held his cards close on this issue. His complaint about the money being spent is about Putin not respecting Biden and widening the invasion. He doesn't blame Zelensky for courting DC for funding and supplies. He did say that the deal Putin offered should not refused.
I don't think that any moderator is going to get anything more detailed from Trump, ever. He's threading the needle and needs votes from nutters as well as sane people and doing it better than Biden with his nutters and sane people.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:05 am to CitizenK
I also don't think that Trump is playing some secret game or hiding his true intentions or anything like that.
He's truly keeping his options open.
He's truly keeping his options open.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:20 am to GOP_Tiger
This is a fascinating German article about the rise of SEAD in the drone wars.
LINK
The large, octocopter, Baba Yaga drones first appeared in the conflict about two years ago, equipped with thermal cameras and dropping ordinance onto unsuspecting Russian vehicles. There were at least two time when a single Baba Yaga was documented to take out 10+ Russian armored vehicles in a single night.
As the article says, Russian countermeasures then greatly reduced the effectiveness of these drones, but now the tide is shifting yet again.
LINK
quote:
The participants in the discourse cite the developments surrounding the use and defense of the heavy Ukrainian multicopter drones, which have become known under the collective term "Baba Yaga". These unmanned weapon carriers, which have been continuously developed since the beginning of the conflict and are hardened against electronic measures, have been putting pressure on the Russian armed forces, especially since this spring. The weaknesses of the system in the form of size and sometimes also noise were successfully offset by the Ukrainian side using it at night.
Only with the creation of specially equipped and trained drone defense companies were the Russian armed forces able to effectively counter the threat. These units, which despite their name are mostly only group or maximum platoon strength, were equipped with machine guns, all of which have a thermal targeting device. In addition, the units are made mobile with small all-terrain vehicles (ATVs). Mobility and reaction time are further increased by the fact that the machine guns, mostly PKM type in caliber 7.62 x 54R mm, are mounted on these vehicles and can conduct fire immediately after stopping movement.
quote:
The development outlined so far can be seen as the familiar game between action and reaction, even though there have undoubtedly been several evolutionary steps in UAS within the conflict in terms of hardening against electronic countermeasures. However, recent discussions in Russian Telegram channels suggest that the process has taken on a new quality and has clearly entered the spiral phase.
quote:
According to this, the quadcopters carrying weapons on the Ukrainian side are also protected at night by special FPV drones. These have a thermal imaging device to carry out target reconnaissance and tracking independently. The Russian operational reports speak of at least two accompanying FPV drones per weapon carrier. In the event of fire from the mobile Russian drone defense troops, these are targeted by the night-fighting Ukrainian FPV drones. In addition, the heavy quadcopters are used to deliberately mine the possible approach and departure routes of the Russian drone defense troops from the air in order to hinder their movement and cause further losses. The losses incurred by the Russian drone defense force as a result enable the Baba Yaga drones to be used again in the affected operational area.
Accordingly, the Ukrainian armed forces have documented for the first time, reacted to a defensive success against their unmanned systems and, in addition to technical and tactical changes, also taken organizational measures to maintain the survivability and assertiveness of their own drones. To put it simply, this is another revolution in this war after the drone versus drone battle. Unmanned aircraft are clearly carrying out SEAD missions against drone defenses for the first time, thereby regaining the initiative.
The large, octocopter, Baba Yaga drones first appeared in the conflict about two years ago, equipped with thermal cameras and dropping ordinance onto unsuspecting Russian vehicles. There were at least two time when a single Baba Yaga was documented to take out 10+ Russian armored vehicles in a single night.
As the article says, Russian countermeasures then greatly reduced the effectiveness of these drones, but now the tide is shifting yet again.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:27 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
I also don't think that Trump is playing some secret game or hiding his true intentions or anything like that.
He's truly keeping his options open.
Agree, but I also think he will be VERY motivated to end this and the Israel conflict just to contrast himself with Biden.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:45 am to VolSquatch
quote:
Agree, but I also think he will be VERY motivated to end this and the Israel conflict just to contrast himself with Biden.
Yes, no matter what Trump decides, we will see the end of the current Jake Sullivan strategy of slowly waiting for Russia to go broke and/or run out of equipment and then negotiate. The status quo will not continue.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 9:50 am to VolSquatch
quote:
he will be VERY motivated to end this and the Israel conflict just to contrast himself with Biden.
Well if he single handedly "ends" both conflicts, they'll give him the Nobel Peace Prize and rename it the Trump Peace Prize.
But that has about as much chance of happening as Biden being a 6 handicap golfer.
Israel doesn't really give a frick one way or the other. They're gonna do what they get ready to do. They appreciate the weapons and money we give them. But they don't have to have them to defend themselves. They're perfectly capable of that on their own.
Ukraine is way more complicated.
If Trump cuts off aid, Russia ramps up its attacks and begins gaining ground. But it doesn't stop the war. Maybe Ukraine takes some sort of deal. But hostiles will continue at a lower rate before they break out again.
If Ukraine gets everything it needs, then they will eventually cut off Crimea and force Putin into a humiliating retreat. Another million men will die making that happen. And it weakens Russia so much that the whole place starts falling apart. Which leads to more war, secession, invasion, revolution, bloodshed, and general mayhem.
The only "peaceful" solution is for someone to convince Putin to pack up and go home on his own terms. And that's not gonna happen.
And that's the head scratcher. Putin started this thing. But he can't finish it. And no one can figure out a solution that doesn't result in even more violence down the line.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 10:03 am to GOP_Tiger
There's a very good article in the German media outlet Süddeutsche Zeitung about Russia's inability to replace the armored vehicles that they are losing, and about the depletion of their stockyards. This is a topic that I've recently brought up repeatedly, so I thought this was worth looking at carefully. Obviously, "two to three years" is a very different timeframe from the shorter timeframes that I've previously mentioned.
LINK
As this Twitter thread from one of the experts interviewed in the article illustrates, "panzer" in German can refer to armored vehicles besides tanks, and that's a translation issue, because Russia is not actually running out of tanks nearly as fast as it's running out of IFVs, APCs, and SPGs.
LINK
As this Twitter thread from one of the experts interviewed in the article illustrates, "panzer" in German can refer to armored vehicles besides tanks, and that's a translation issue, because Russia is not actually running out of tanks nearly as fast as it's running out of IFVs, APCs, and SPGs.
quote:
The Süddeutsche Zeitung looked at a total of 87 military sites in Russia from space.
These include 16 military bases that mainly store tanks, artillery vehicles and armored personnel carriers.
quote:
The SZ used an AI model to count the vehicles identified in the images and for control purposes. The model was trained on the platform of the Swiss company Picterra , which had already helped New York Times journalists analyze bomb craters in the Gaza Strip. The SZ used it to determine the number of armored vehicles from satellite data.
quote:
But the analysis of the satellite images shows that this tank recycling as a method of rearmament will become impossible in the foreseeable future. Precise timelines are difficult to predict. Gustav Gressel, Russia and military expert at the international think tank European Council on Foreign Relations, believes: "We can expect that the material will become a problem for the Russians in about two years." The IISS also expects that Russia will only be able to sustain its war effort at the current intensity for "another two or three years." The think tank Royal United Services Institute ( Rusi ) has reached similar conclusions.
quote:
Despite the insights provided by satellites, more precise forecasts are impossible. For example, it is unclear whether Russian losses will remain as immensely high in the coming years as they are now, or whether Moscow will still be able to procure material outside of Russia, for example. In any case, Putin will not run out of tanks overnight. "I estimate that Russia still has around 3,200 tanks in stock, but the vast majority of them are in a bad condition and require significant repairs," Michael Gjerstad, conflict researcher at the IISS, told the SZ.
There are also uncertainties regarding new production in Russia. Can it be increased? Or is Putin running out of money? The country has dramatically increased its arms industry. Existing factories are working longer, and those that have been shut down have been reactivated. A third of the budget is spent on armaments. According to estimates by Rusi and others, this means that Russia can produce around 1,500 new tanks every year. In addition, there are around 3,000 armored vehicles of various types.
quote:
However, this cannot compensate for the horrendous losses. In 2023, at least 86 percent of the tanks that Russia sent to the front were refurbished tanks from old stocks. Gustav Gressel is certain: "Russia is losing far more equipment than it can replace, and stocks are running out."
So, at least in this respect, it is wrong to say that time is on Putin's side in this war. Russia cannot continue the war indefinitely at the current intensity. "It is therefore important for Ukraine to inflict such high material losses on the Russians that things will become critical for them at some point," says Gressel.
The think tank Rusi concludes: If Ukraine receives the necessary resources to be able to fend off the Russian offensive this year, then it is unlikely that Moscow will be able to make major territorial gains in 2025. From 2026 onwards, Russian combat power will then slowly decline. Ukraine can draw hope from this. But it is also clear that if the Western partners do not provide the country with the necessary help, the country will have lost the war long before then.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 10:11 am to No Colors
quote:
Well if he single handedly "ends" both conflicts, they'll give him the Nobel Peace Prize and rename it the Trump Peace Prize.
People who pay attention know there are a lot of factors that go into it.
If the conflicts end under Trump, many people will see him as having "ended" them whether he actually had anything to do with it or not.
quote:
If Trump cuts off aid, Russia ramps up its attacks and begins gaining ground. But it doesn't stop the war. Maybe Ukraine takes some sort of deal. But hostiles will continue at a lower rate before they break out again.
If Ukraine gets everything it needs, then they will eventually cut off Crimea and force Putin into a humiliating retreat. Another million men will die making that happen. And it weakens Russia so much that the whole place starts falling apart. Which leads to more war, secession, invasion, revolution, bloodshed, and general mayhem.
The US could strong arm both sides into ending the fighting at least temporarily. You threaten Russia with more aid if their demands aren't realistic, you threaten Ukraine with no more aid if they don't have realistic demands. You have to give both sides wiggle room to hash it out, but you give both sides non negotiables. Ukraine isn't getting NATO membership or all their territory back, Russia gets Crimea but it has some special legal status like was agreed in the 2022 talks and the current Zelensky government remains in power until elections.... it doesn't have to be that exactly, but in that neighborhood seems likely.
But then we have to know what the Trump admin would view as "realistic", and I'm not sure they would have the foresight to come up with something that keeps this from happening again in 10-20 years (though I'm not sure anyone does).
Posted on 7/1/24 at 10:27 am to VolSquatch
I keep seeing Twatter posts about Ukraine hitting a jet fighter fuel plant. Any refinery can make jet fighter fuel, it just need to treat the part of kerosene stream with caustic soda from the atmospheric crude unit. Pissant former Lake Charles refining operated a decade on a contract with DoD for diesel and Jet A and variations. It's not hard. The refinery couldn't make finished gasoline, only straight run lower octane than regular.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 11:37 am to CitizenK
Oh no, Ukraine bros! Our Generation's Winston Churchill is ready for peace negotiations all of a sudden. Wonder what's changed in the last 2 weeks to cause this shift???


Posted on 7/1/24 at 11:37 am to CitizenK
Ukraine should be allowed to strike ‘valid military targets’ in Russia, US House Intelligence Committee chair says
by Elsa Court and The Kyiv Independent news desk July 1, 2024 7:12 PM
Ukraine should be allowed to strike "valid military targets" in Russia, Mike Turner, chair of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and a Republican congressman from Ohio, said in Kyiv on July 1.
Visiting Kyiv as part of a bipartisan delegation of U.S. members of Congress, Turner said his position on Ukrainian strikes on Russian territory was "broader than the (Biden) administration's."
The U.S. gave Ukraine permission on June 1 to use American-supplied weapons, including HIMARS rockets, to strike targets in Russia located near the border with Kharkiv Oblast after Russia launched a renewed offensive in the region on May 10.
Ukraine is still prohibited from using ATACMS and other long-range U.S.-supplied weapons for strikes deeper inside Russia.
"I believe that Ukraine ought to be able to use the weapons that are being provided for valid military targets," Turner said.
"My position is the same as (NATO) Secretary General Jens Stoltenburg," Turner added, referring to Stoltenberg's remarks in June that restricting Ukraine's ability to strike targets in Russia is "to ask them to defend themselves with one hand tied around the back."
by Elsa Court and The Kyiv Independent news desk July 1, 2024 7:12 PM
Ukraine should be allowed to strike "valid military targets" in Russia, Mike Turner, chair of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and a Republican congressman from Ohio, said in Kyiv on July 1.
Visiting Kyiv as part of a bipartisan delegation of U.S. members of Congress, Turner said his position on Ukrainian strikes on Russian territory was "broader than the (Biden) administration's."
The U.S. gave Ukraine permission on June 1 to use American-supplied weapons, including HIMARS rockets, to strike targets in Russia located near the border with Kharkiv Oblast after Russia launched a renewed offensive in the region on May 10.
Ukraine is still prohibited from using ATACMS and other long-range U.S.-supplied weapons for strikes deeper inside Russia.
"I believe that Ukraine ought to be able to use the weapons that are being provided for valid military targets," Turner said.
"My position is the same as (NATO) Secretary General Jens Stoltenburg," Turner added, referring to Stoltenberg's remarks in June that restricting Ukraine's ability to strike targets in Russia is "to ask them to defend themselves with one hand tied around the back."
Posted on 7/1/24 at 11:44 am to SirWinston
quote:
Wonder what's changed in the last 2 weeks to cause this shift???
Nothing has changed regarding your willingness to lap up any Russian propaganda you can find.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 11:47 am to SirWinston
quote:
Wonder what's changed in the last 2 weeks
Nothing has changed.
The only thing that has happened in the last two weeks is that the countries supporting Ukraine met and decided that as a condition for continued support, Ukraine had to lay out in writing a statement for the conditions under which they would be willing to cease hostilities.
What is your interpretation of what has "changed" in the last two weeks?
Posted on 7/1/24 at 11:47 am to GOP_Tiger
The 75th anniversary of NATO is coming up next week, and there'll be a big summit in DC. Ukrainian defense minister Umerov, Zelensky's top advisor Yermak, and the energy minister will arrive in DC tomorrow to meet with Sullivan and others and discuss plans for the summit.
Posted on 7/1/24 at 11:49 am to VolSquatch
quote:
The US could strong arm both sides into ending the fighting at least temporarily.
Nah
Posted on 7/1/24 at 11:52 am to No Colors
quote:
The US could strong arm both sides into ending the fighting at least temporarily.
Nah
That might be the most substantive response I've seen from you so far
Posted on 7/1/24 at 11:53 am to SirWinston
quote:why is Russia not reciprocating? Why is Russia choosing to prolong the bloodshed when Ukraine is trying to bring peace?
Our Generation's Winston Churchill is ready for peace negotiations all of a sudden
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