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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 6/11/24 at 5:16 am to Lima Whiskey
Posted on 6/11/24 at 5:16 am to Lima Whiskey
New York Post
quote:
A prominent pro-Ukraine nonprofit slammed the Biden administration on Monday for missing the congressionally mandated deadline to provide a “strategic plan” to end Moscow’s war on Kyiv.
Razom, which advocates for continued assistance to Ukraine, bashed the White House for missing the Saturday deadline set forth in an April supplemental funding bill that provided the $60.8 billion foreign aid package for Ukraine.
The bill, which President Biden signed into law on April 24, included a section mandating his administration provide a strategy for the war within 45 days. The Biden administration has yet to provide any comprehensive strategy, which “conveys confusion,” program director of Razom advocacy Mykola Murskyj exclusively told The Post.
1
Posted on 6/11/24 at 5:16 am to StormyMcMan
quote:Apparently it doesn't come up enough. In the same comments, Lavrov noted the West was attempting to derail negotiations. Two days later Boris Johnson personally traveled to Kyiv to ensure that exact outcome. Boris Johnson bragged to press about it on the plane ride back to London.
This literally comes up so much on this thread I had to bookmark a canned reply about how RUSSIA wasn't in alignment on this peace deal and why.
April 7, 2022
You seem to fixate on negotiation disagreements still evident in the first week of April. The negotiations were ongoing. Would they have ended successfully? I don't know, and you don't know. What we do know is Boris Johnson saw a peace compromise as possible, so he intervened.
What we do know is several Ukrainian officials have since stated publicly that the negotiations were on track and nearing a conclusion, a conclusion which would have ended the war.
Posted on 6/11/24 at 5:42 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Would they have ended successfully? I don't know, and you don't know
quote:
a conclusion which would have ended the war
Also I like how you just ignore that both Lavrov and Putin say these deals weren't going to happen, but are 100% certain BJ for sure derailed them
quote:
What we do know is several Ukrainian officials have since stated publicly that the negotiations were on track and nearing a conclusion,
And we do know that Putin and Lavrov were publicly saying they weren't
ETA FWIW I don't know or care what BJ did or didn't do. My point is that Russia was on record about not being in alignment with Ukraine and several issues before that meeting took place and from all appearances weren't going to sign it. BJ might have talked Ukraine into backing away as well, but Russia wasn't signing anything...unless you think BJ convinced the Kermlin as well
This post was edited on 6/11/24 at 5:48 am
Posted on 6/11/24 at 6:06 am to StormyMcMan
quote:Let's try this again, shall we?
Would they have ended successfully? I don't know, and you don't know
quote:
a conclusion which would have ended the war
quote:
I don't know
you don't know.
HOWEVER
Boris Johnson saw a peace compromise as possible
AND
Ukrainian officials have stated .. negotiations were on track and .. would have ended the war.
quote:When Lavrov spoke on Apr 7th, he said no such thing. When Putin spoke on the 12th, negotiations had been scuttled.
Also I like how you just ignore that both Lavrov and Putin say these deals weren't going to happen
quote:Your point is moot. Negotiations were not at a conclusion. Nothing was ready to be signed.
My point is that Russia was on record about not being in alignment with Ukraine and several issues before that meeting took place and from all appearances weren't going to sign it.
quote:This is not a matter of my opinion ... or yours.
...unless you think BJ convinced the Kermlin as well
It is a matter of BJ's own opinion. It is the opinion of Ukrainian insiders. It is the opinion of others such as Fiona Hill.
Posted on 6/11/24 at 6:20 am to NC_Tigah
You are again ignoring that Russia says they were in fact NOT on tract and were unacceptable, but sure sure let's just ignore that and blame BJ for it all since it fits your narrative
Posted on 6/11/24 at 6:27 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
A prominent pro-Ukraine nonprofit slammed the Biden administration on Monday for missing the congressionally mandated deadline to provide a “strategic plan” to end Moscow’s war on Kyiv.
Razom, which advocates for continued assistance to Ukraine, bashed the White House for missing the Saturday deadline set forth in an April supplemental funding bill that provided the $60.8 billion foreign aid package for Ukraine.
The bill, which President Biden signed into law on April 24, included a section mandating his administration provide a strategy for the war within 45 days. The Biden administration has yet to provide any comprehensive strategy, which “conveys confusion,” program director of Razom advocacy Mykola Murskyj exclusively told The Post.
If it wasn't so pathetic by now, it would be hilarious.
"As Long as it Takes"
Joe was too busy putting on his version of Soul Train on the White House lawn.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. This post was edited on 6/11/24 at 6:46 am
Posted on 6/11/24 at 7:04 am to AU86
U.S. lifts weapon ban on Azov brigade
The Biden Administration has authorized the Azov Brigade of the National Guard of Ukraine to use U.S. weapons.
The ban imposed about ten years ago was lifted.
The Washington Post reported on this with reference to the U.S. Department of State.
Now, the brigade will have access to the same U.S. military assistance as any other unit.
In addition to U.S. weapons and equipment, the brigade will be able to participate in exercises organized by the United States.
After a thorough review, Ukraine’s 12th Special Forces Azov Brigade passed Leahy vetting as carried out by the U.S. Department of State, referring to the “Leahy Law” that prevents U.S. military assistance from going to foreign units credibly found to have committed major human rights violations.
In its statement, the State Department said that it had found no evidence of such violations by the 12th Special Forces Azov Brigade of the National Guard.
In April, Denys “Redis” Prokopenko called on the United States to exclude the Azov Brigade from the appropriations bill. The Colonel pointed out that the Leahy Law had been applied to the Azov Brigade without any evidence, based on the characterization of Western media that had formed their attitude under the influence of Russian propaganda.
Militarnyi
The Biden Administration has authorized the Azov Brigade of the National Guard of Ukraine to use U.S. weapons.
The ban imposed about ten years ago was lifted.
The Washington Post reported on this with reference to the U.S. Department of State.
Now, the brigade will have access to the same U.S. military assistance as any other unit.
In addition to U.S. weapons and equipment, the brigade will be able to participate in exercises organized by the United States.
After a thorough review, Ukraine’s 12th Special Forces Azov Brigade passed Leahy vetting as carried out by the U.S. Department of State, referring to the “Leahy Law” that prevents U.S. military assistance from going to foreign units credibly found to have committed major human rights violations.
In its statement, the State Department said that it had found no evidence of such violations by the 12th Special Forces Azov Brigade of the National Guard.
In April, Denys “Redis” Prokopenko called on the United States to exclude the Azov Brigade from the appropriations bill. The Colonel pointed out that the Leahy Law had been applied to the Azov Brigade without any evidence, based on the characterization of Western media that had formed their attitude under the influence of Russian propaganda.
Militarnyi
Posted on 6/11/24 at 7:23 am to AU86
Wading through what is just Ukraine cheerleading vs what is actual objective analysis in this thread can be an exhaustive venture.
Posted on 6/11/24 at 7:26 am to cypher
What are Hungary, Austria and Slovakia going to do should the lease for natural gas and crude oil pipelines not be renewed by Ukraine this year?
Orban FINALLY after over a decade decided, this year, to cooperate with Croatia to build a natural gas pipeline and to expand its crude oil pipeline.
That dude is bought and paid for or at best a checkers player in geopolitics
Orban FINALLY after over a decade decided, this year, to cooperate with Croatia to build a natural gas pipeline and to expand its crude oil pipeline.
That dude is bought and paid for or at best a checkers player in geopolitics
This post was edited on 6/11/24 at 7:31 am
Posted on 6/11/24 at 8:57 am to StormyMcMan
quote:You're projecting.
blame BJ for it all since it fits your narrative
Taking Johnson at his word is not "narrative." On the other hand, concocting a fantasy based on refusal to take Johnson at his word is definitional of "narrative." Your choice to ignore Ukrainian contentions that peace was attainable is definitional of "narrative." Further, the fact Russia and Ukraine were engaged in peace talks at all, destroys your odd insistence that Russia was not interested in negotiating an end to the conflict.
quote:The problem is, in the Spring negotiations prior to 9APR22, Russia did not say that ... EVER. They said some Ukrainian counterproposals fell short of Russian asks (hence the term "ongoing negotiations"), and that the negotiations were proceeding slowly.
ignoring that Russia says they were in fact NOT on tract
Posted on 6/11/24 at 9:14 am to CitizenK
Scratch off another Su-34 and it’s crew as well. One crashed into a mountain in North Ossetia Russia and killed both crew members. Burn in hell pigs.
LINK
The 110th does it again. They shot down another Su-25 in Pokrovsky. Someone give those guys a week off to go get some from their girls they deserve it from the work they have put in downing so many aircraft these past few weeks.
LINK
LINK
The 110th does it again. They shot down another Su-25 in Pokrovsky. Someone give those guys a week off to go get some from their girls they deserve it from the work they have put in downing so many aircraft these past few weeks.
LINK
This post was edited on 6/11/24 at 9:23 am
Posted on 6/11/24 at 9:37 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
Taking Johnson at his word is not "narrative." On the other hand, concocting a fantasy based on refusal to take Johnson at his word is definitional of "narrative." Your choice to ignore Ukrainian contentions that peace was attainable is definitional of "narrative." Further, the fact Russia and Ukraine were engaged in peace talks at all, destroys your odd insistence that Russia was not interested in negotiating an end to the conflict.
Go back and reread my post. My whole point is that Russia wasn't in alignment with the talks. Period. BJ may or may not have convinced Ukraine to walk away. It's not relevant to the point that Russia wasnt about close to a deal per their own spokespeople. But you are taking Ukraine at their word that talks were close and then chosing to ignore Russia literally saying the opposite and blaming the whole thing on one person.
Also ignoring that Putin said Bucha and security guarantees were Russian reasons for walking away.
You keep looking at half the coin and blaming the whole thing on BJ without even acknowledging that Russia was on record about big issues in the framework and having issues with a "staged war crime"
quote:
The problem is, in the Spring negotiations prior to 9APR22, Russia did not say that ... EVER
Literally said there were unacceptable terms on April 7th
Posted on 6/11/24 at 10:08 am to StormyMcMan
BJ wasn’t going to be part of any deal where the West would have to put boots on the ground in order to guarantee Ukraine’s sovereignty.
And we all know any peace deal with Russia wasn’t going to be enforceable without such a guarantee because Russia was just going to wait, lick their wounds, and then start a new special operation when they were ready.
There’s a treaty in place right now with Russia, the US and the UK that guarantees Ukrainian sovereignty. Russia broke that treaty. Why would any rational person believe they would honor another deal?
And we all know any peace deal with Russia wasn’t going to be enforceable without such a guarantee because Russia was just going to wait, lick their wounds, and then start a new special operation when they were ready.
There’s a treaty in place right now with Russia, the US and the UK that guarantees Ukrainian sovereignty. Russia broke that treaty. Why would any rational person believe they would honor another deal?
Posted on 6/11/24 at 10:18 am to StormyMcMan
Kuleba says narrative that 'Ukraine rejected peace deal' is 'lie promoted by Russia'
The often-repeated narrative that "Ukraine rejected a peace deal offered by Russia in the spring of 2022" is "one of the favorite lies promoted by Russia," said Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba in a video address posted on X on May 14.
The failed peace negotiations between Russia and Ukraine, which were held in Istanbul shortly after the beginning of the full-scale war, have been a regular feature of disinformation campaigns spread by Russia and its allies. One popular theory, which is unsupported by accounts of the talks at the time, is that former U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson sabotaged the negotiations.
Kuleba said that Russia is intent on pushing this unsubstantiated narrative because it wants to "shift the blame for the war...to Ukraine."
"They want people to forget that it was Russia that started the full-scale war in February 2022 and instead focus on the talks at the end of March 2022."
Kuleba acknowledged that Russian and Ukrainian delegates did indeed meet in the early months of the full-scale war and discussed how to bring an end to the fighting.
But Kuleba argued that the respective positions were "so far away" and the "Russian demands were so bizarre that the prospect of a real solution was not even remotely in sight."
Kuleba added that the narrative that Johnson somehow sabotaged the talks also does not match the timeline because the negotiations continued for months after Johnson visited Istanbul.
The real figure responsible for the lack of peace in Ukraine, Kuleba concluded, is Russian President Vladimir Putin, who "has been ruining peace in Ukraine for more than a decade."
The Kyiv Independent
The often-repeated narrative that "Ukraine rejected a peace deal offered by Russia in the spring of 2022" is "one of the favorite lies promoted by Russia," said Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba in a video address posted on X on May 14.
The failed peace negotiations between Russia and Ukraine, which were held in Istanbul shortly after the beginning of the full-scale war, have been a regular feature of disinformation campaigns spread by Russia and its allies. One popular theory, which is unsupported by accounts of the talks at the time, is that former U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson sabotaged the negotiations.
Kuleba said that Russia is intent on pushing this unsubstantiated narrative because it wants to "shift the blame for the war...to Ukraine."
"They want people to forget that it was Russia that started the full-scale war in February 2022 and instead focus on the talks at the end of March 2022."
Kuleba acknowledged that Russian and Ukrainian delegates did indeed meet in the early months of the full-scale war and discussed how to bring an end to the fighting.
But Kuleba argued that the respective positions were "so far away" and the "Russian demands were so bizarre that the prospect of a real solution was not even remotely in sight."
Kuleba added that the narrative that Johnson somehow sabotaged the talks also does not match the timeline because the negotiations continued for months after Johnson visited Istanbul.
The real figure responsible for the lack of peace in Ukraine, Kuleba concluded, is Russian President Vladimir Putin, who "has been ruining peace in Ukraine for more than a decade."
The Kyiv Independent
Posted on 6/11/24 at 10:26 am to cypher
Bingo, we have a winner.
Some will believe anything Russia pushes out there. Putin decided to go to war. There was never a threat from NATO, but he saw an opportunity to take Crimea and he did.
He saw another opportunity to take the rest of Ukraine, by removing the government and putting in his own. He is paying for that now.
NATO never had been a serious threat to Russia militarily. Economically the NATO nations are, but not militarily.
Some will believe anything Russia pushes out there. Putin decided to go to war. There was never a threat from NATO, but he saw an opportunity to take Crimea and he did.
He saw another opportunity to take the rest of Ukraine, by removing the government and putting in his own. He is paying for that now.
NATO never had been a serious threat to Russia militarily. Economically the NATO nations are, but not militarily.
Posted on 6/11/24 at 10:30 am to VolSquatch
quote:
Wading through what is just Ukraine cheerleading vs what is actual objective analysis in this thread can be an exhaustive venture.
bullshite. Sir Winston and two or three others fill this thread with useless crap over and over. This it what makes reading this thread harder than it needs to be. Add something of value or shut the frick up is what they need to hear.
Posted on 6/11/24 at 10:46 am to notiger1997
quote:
Winston and two or three others fill this thread with useless crap over and over.
This argument about the hypothetical peace negotiations that happened AFTER Russia invaded are the most ridiculous.
You really have to screw your face up to get to the point where this whole war is justified because Ukraine turned down an offer from a government that was in the process of leveling its cities and trying to assassinate its senior officials.
They need to let that one go. Along with the biolabs, super soldiers, nazis, and anti semitic Jews.
Posted on 6/11/24 at 11:31 am to cypher
quote:
Kuleba acknowledged that Russian and Ukrainian delegates did indeed meet in the early months of the full-scale war and discussed how to bring an end to the fighting.
But Kuleba argued that the respective positions were "so far away" and the "Russian demands were so bizarre that the prospect of a real solution was not even remotely in sight."
Lying through his teeth there, they were sending drafts back and forth. We even know some of the agreed upon positions, like what is he even saying
And the bots are EATING it up
Posted on 6/11/24 at 11:40 am to doubleb
quote:First off, "threat" is a matter of perception. I've used a rattlesnake analogy in that regard. It doesn't matter if someone's intent is harmless. If the snake perceives a threat, it will strike. Tis the nature of the beast.
NATO never had been a serious threat to Russia militarily.
But let's talk event, rather than analogy. In 1940, Stalin (one of the most paranoid leaders in history) failed to perceive Hitler as an imminent threat. But for the good fortune of a Balkan distraction delaying Barbarosa two months, followed by the coldest winter on record, the USSR may well have existed from that point as a German vassal state as a result of Stalin's misperception.
In the 1950's while all the West's propaganda-rhetoric was about defensive action, behind the scenes our military minds (in concert with NATO) plotted and studied nuclear first-strike scenarios. Would Russia be paranoid if it considered such plans might still reside in Western military headquarters?
So what specifically is NATO's purpose, more specifically what would its purpose be in Ukraine?
Posted on 6/11/24 at 11:48 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
So what specifically is NATO's purpose, more specifically what would its purpose be in Ukraine?
NATO is s defensive alliance created to defend Western Europe from the Soviets and from themselves.
If Ukraine became a member, Ukraine would likely become more of a buffer to Russia. A speed bump of sorts.
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