re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

That's crazy.

I definitely think we need criminal justice reform here in the US. I am a proponent of rehabilitation to a certain extent. Like if kids who were on the wrong tract because they don't have fathers in the house, mom is a crack head, grew up in the ghetto, etc. Those guys could be made into productive members of society. They could spend a couple of years getting their GED, learning to become a carpenter or a plumber or a mechanic, etc. Makes way more sense to me than just locking them up to play basketball in Pelican Bay.

But at some point, after two or three failed attempts, we should just take them out and shoot them. Locking people up for 30 or 40 years to cost a few million $$$ before they die is just insanity to me.

This is what progressivism looks like...where we treat a mass murderer better than the average citizen. I wonder what a similar-sized apartment would cost in that country.

Reuters: Russia's Kuibyshev oil refinery stops one of primary units after drone attack

by Kateryna Denisova and The Kyiv Independent news desk March 25, 2024 4:38 PM

The Kuibyshev oil refinery in Russia's Samara Oblast halted one of two primary refining units, taking half of its capacity offline, after a drone attack overnight on March 23, Reuters reported, citing two unnamed industry sources.

The refinery halted operation of the CDU-5, with a production power of 9,500 metric tons per day (70,000 barrels), around half its capacity, according to Reuters.

The news agency calculated that seven refineries have halted refining capacity of 4.6 million tons of oil, or some 7% of the total, due to drone attacks.

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If someone deliberately murdered my family. Like in a terrorist incident they shot down my daughters in a shopping mall or whatever. If given the opportunity I would personally torture them to death on live television. And wouldn't care what anyone did to me afterwards.

And I think there needs to be more of that. If more Muslims saw us chopping off their dicks, cutting their throats, and throwing them into a pit of rotting pig carcasses, then maybe they would think twice about taking the express elevator to heaven.

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Torture is a sticky subject. Partly because it is difficult to define in the first place.

In a situation like this there are three main motivations for torture:

A actionable intelligence
B retribution
C future prevention

As for actionable intelligence torture at the level of mutilation, it rarely results in useful intel.

Retribution has a personal and institutional cost in morality, one that may feel good in the short term but may exact a larger cost later.

In terms of future prevention, I doubt it does anything in this regard vis-a-vis zealots. It simply becomes bullitan board material if public. These particular terrorists were likely not zealots and it is harder to gauge how it would impact people similarly situated to them. I am not sure type and length of punishment really go into the calculus of people's minds when they are up against a real or imaginary wall in life.

I am against what I define as torture on moral grounds but understand that other people have differing moral boundaries than I do and accept we all engage in situational morality.



Regarding the Norway prison, it is salient to point out that their recidivism rate is less than half of ours and one of the lowest in the world. I suppose your approach depends on whether your primary goal is punishment or returning people to the public who no longer commit crimes. IMO that shouldn't really be an issue with a multiple murderer and a few other crimes that shouldn't return to the public. I always saw the main punishment of the prison system was the loss of freedom, but most people don't see it that way because I assume they don't see the loss of freedom as a significant punishment.

I get what you are saying; however, there is a lot of difference in the loss of freedom when your cell looks like the below vs what the living conditions are for Anders Behring Breivik.

LOL at all the primitive people in here who think that America was better off when lynching was common.

The rule of law is the most basic foundation of a free society.

That's why the right to an attorney, the right to a fair trial, the legal presumption of innocence, and the prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment are constitutional rights.

And some of you who have just rejected the Bill of Rights in this very thread will turn right around and pretend to be great patriots.

Pathetic.

I'm not quite sure if you are calling me out or not. I think US citizens have the right to all of these things; however, when someone from another country conducts terrorist attacks against our population, they should not be granted those rights. Had the 9/11 terrorists (not US citizens) not been killed during their attack, I would have had no issue with them being mistreated. If that makes me primative, then so be it.

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The rule of law is the most basic foundation of a free society.

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The complication comes in when the criminal justice system is broken down and the only thing that works is the revolving door.

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Bill of Rights

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Most people treat the Constitution like an ala carte menu. They want an extra helping of several options and want to skip the ones that don't suit their taste.

Stop taking my posts out of context, No Colours.

I did NOT call them innocent, and I said I had no problem cutting their ears off if they were the shooters.