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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 3/22/24 at 10:56 pm to
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8186 posts
Posted on 3/22/24 at 10:56 pm to
quote:

Striking Russian refineries makes a lot of strategic sense, which is why the master mind of the Afghan withdrawal doesn't like it.


It's really the only chance Ukraine has to bring Russia to the negotiating table. If they can continue hitting Russian oil refineries, it's eventually going to bite.
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8662 posts
Posted on 3/22/24 at 11:01 pm to
In order to bring them to the negotiating table they would need to ramp up those strikes on refineries by a factor of 10 though.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16137 posts
Posted on 3/22/24 at 11:05 pm to
I believe that is the one which 2 of the 3 crude units were back online a day or two later. The one that is down is due to reduced capacity downstream.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8186 posts
Posted on 3/22/24 at 11:10 pm to
If they can keep hitting them, eventually they are going to get a lucky hit and take them offline for an extended period. Aren't those refineries full of stuff that goes boom?
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45724 posts
Posted on 3/22/24 at 11:22 pm to
quote:

In order to bring them to the negotiating table they would need to ramp up those strikes on refineries by a factor of 10 though.


Ukrainian FPV drone production is increasing by the month. It’s the one area of military production where it’s keeping up with or maybe surpassing Russian production.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5740 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 3:52 am to
quote:

Ukraine has not intentionally attacked civilians. This is not their style at all. Putin has done a false flag attack on his own people before and no doubt there are other bad actors with an axe to grind against Russia.



I agree, but believe that it is likely that russia will try to use it for anti Ukraine propaganda.

Russia's Security Council suggests Ukraine "may have been involved in terrorist attack near Moscow"

Update, it's already started:

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
FSB says terrorists allegedly had links with Ukraine

It is reported that they allegedly tried to cross the Russian-Ukrainian border and had contacts on the Ukrainian side.
This post was edited on 3/23/24 at 4:47 am
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5740 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 3:59 am to
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 23 March 2023

On 17 March 2024, a Ukrainian intelligence official reportedly stated that Ukraine had successfully struck 12 Russian oil refineries with Uncrewed Aerial Vehicles (UAVs). On 15-16 March the Ukrainian media reported that three large refineries in the Samara oblast in southern Russia were also attacked.

Some of the furthest facilities attacked are approximately 900km from Ukraine, underscoring the reach of the Ukrainian UAV attacks. These strikes are imposing a financial cost on Russia, impacting the domestic fuel market. Recent strikes against refineries have likely disrupted at least 10 per cent of Russia's refinery capacity. Depending on the extent of the damage, major repairs could take considerable time and expense. Sanctions are highly likely increasing the time and cost of sourcing replacement equipment.

According to a Russian Energy Ministry official, there are plans to deploy Pantsir air defence systems to protect the refineries. However, given the size and scale of Russia's energy industry, it is unlikely that Russia will be able to protect all the vulnerable facilities.
This post was edited on 3/23/24 at 4:13 am
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5740 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 4:07 am to
Air Force: Ukraine downs 31 Russian drones overnight

Ukraine shot down 31 of 34 Shahed-type drones Russia launched overnight on March 23 from Kursk region and Cape Chauda in occupied Crimea, the Air Force said in its morning update.

Anti-aircraft missile units of the Air Force and mobile fire units were engaged in repelling the aerial assault. The attack drones were downed over Poltava, Mykolaiv, Dnipropetrovsk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson oblasts.

Russian forces also targeted Donetsk Oblast with at least four S-300 anti-aircraft guided missiles. It is unclear whether the missiles were intercepted.

The Kyiv Independent
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16137 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 6:51 am to
quote:

If they can keep hitting them, eventually they are going to get a lucky hit and take them offline for an extended period. Aren't those refineries full of stuff that goes boom?


It depends what goes boom as to how effective a strike is. A large fire might signify nothing of major importance as to ability to replace or repurpose something like a storage tank.

I seriously doubt that Russia passed any Clinton/Newtron tax laws, or local ad valorem taxes, on spares. This includes entire replacements for electric motors, small steam turbines, pumps and compressors. Then again, corruption at all levels may have had someone sell these for cash, to the Russian version of gypsies we have here.
Posted by RuLSU
Chicago, IL
Member since Nov 2007
8131 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 7:01 am to


He can't keep getting away with it!
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4691 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 7:06 am to
March 22 ISW Update

quote:

Key Takeaways:

Russian forces conducted the largest series of combined drone and missile strikes targeting Ukrainian energy infrastructure since the start of the full-scale invasion during the night of March 21-22.

Russian strikes against Ukrainian energy facilities may aim to degrade Ukrainian defense industrial capacity, and Russian forces are likely trying to exploit Ukrainian air defense missile shortages in a renewed attempt to collapse Ukraine’s energy grid.

Russian forces will likely continue offensive operations through Spring 2024 while preparing for an expected offensive effort in Summer 2024, although Russian forces will likely struggle to launch a concerted large-scale offensive operation in multiple operational directions in Ukraine at the same time.

Russian forces likely seek to exploit current Ukrainian materiel shortages while preparing for efforts that will force Ukraine to expend a sizeable portion of the Western security assistance it may receive in the coming months.

The Ukrainian military command appears to be prioritizing rotations for frontline units but will have to address additional manpower challenges if Ukrainian forces are to seize the initiative even on a localized basis in 2024 as Ukrainian senior military officers say they hope to do.

Russian authorities reportedly intend to significantly expand crypto-mobilization efforts starting in Spring 2024 amid reports about significant decreases in the number of voluntary recruits.

Verstka reported that select Russian officials stated that the Russian military command hopes that increased force generation will allow Russian forces to conduct a future offensive operation to encircle Kharkiv City. Such an operation would pose significant challenges both to the Russian forces responsible for the effort and to the wider Russian campaign in Ukraine, however.

This Islamic State (IS) claimed responsibility for a mass shooting and bombing at a concert venue in the suburbs of Moscow on the evening of March 22.

Russian forces recently made confirmed advances near Kreminna, Avdiivka, Donetsk City, and the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area amid continued positional engagements along the entire line of contact.

Ukrainian Verkhovna Rada Human Rights Ombudsman Dmytro Lubinets reported on March 22 that Ukrainian authorities helped return another nine Ukrainian children to Ukrainian-controlled territory from occupied Ukraine and Russia.

The Moscow military registration and enlistment office has reportedly begun to issue electronic summonses for the Spring 2024 Russian conscription cycle.




ETA

Here is whole blurb on the terrorist attack

quote:

Russian authorities reported that three to five attackers in camouflage opened fire with automatic weapons and detonated explosives during an event at the “Crocus City Hall” concert venue in Krasnogorsk on the northwestern outskirts of Moscow City, killing at least 40 and injuring at least 100.[39] The attackers reportedly fled the scene.[40] Russian reports suggest that up to 6,200 people had gathered at the Crocus concert venue for a sold-out concert, and eyewitnesses reported and posted footage of gunfire, explosions, casualties, and civilians fleeing the venue.[41] The explosions caused a significant fire at the Crocus venue, engulfing roughly 13,000 square meters of the building, causing the roof to cave in, and destroying the top floor.[42] Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs (MVD) forces, Rosgvardia’s Special Rapid Response Unit (SOBR) and Special Purpose Mobile Unit (OMON) forces, and firefighters deployed to the Crocus concert hall to help fight the fire, evacuate civilians, secure the area, and search for suspects.[43] Russian authorities have detained at least one unspecified individual, though it is unclear if this individual is a suspected attacker or was detained for another reason in the aftermath of the attacks.[44]

Russian authorities have not yet reported on the identities or affiliations of the attackers but IS claimed responsibility for the attacks.[45] US officials told the Washington Post that the US has “no reason to doubt” the IS claim.[46] The Washington Post cited US officials as saying that the American and British embassies in Russia issued warnings on March 8 of possible terrorist attacks at mass gatherings in Moscow and St. Petersburg in part due to reports of IS-Khorasan Province (IS-KP) operating in Russia.[47] CNN Chief National Security Correspondent Alex Marquardt reported that sources informed him that the US has had ”fairly specific” intelligence about IS-KP plans for an attack in Russia and that the US informed Russia of the intelligence.[48]

Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov stated that Russian authorities informed Putin about the attack within several minutes and that Putin is receiving updates from all the relevant services.[49] Russian authorities responded to the attack by canceling public events and issuing “high alert” warnings throughout Russia.[50] Russian authorities also announced increased security measures throughout Moscow Oblast and at Russian airports and rail stations.[51] The Russian Investigative Committee opened a criminal case into the attack and deployed an investigative team to the concert venue shortly after Russian security forces security the scene.[52] Russian officials and milbloggers threatened punishments and retaliation against the attackers and baselessly suggested that Ukraine was involved in the attack.[53]

Advisor to the Head of the Ukrainian President’s Office Mykhaylo Podolyak stated that Ukraine had nothing to do with the attack in Moscow.[54] The Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) stated that it rejected all accusations that Ukraine was involved in the attack.[55] US National Security Council Spokesperson John Kirby stated that there is no indication that Ukraine was involved in the attack.[56]


This post was edited on 3/23/24 at 7:20 am
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5740 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 7:35 am to
Drone Attacks Shake Russian Oil Refineries, Civilian Casualties Reported in Belgorod

The Russian defense ministry released a statement detailing the destruction of “12 Ukrainian drones” during overnight operations.

In the Samara region of Russia, a series of “several drone attacks” targeted local oil refineries, as reported by Governor Dmitriy Azarov via Telegram.

One of these strikes resulted in a fire at the Kuibyshev refinery, Azarov said, highlighting there were no casualties. The Kuibyshev refinery, operated by Russian oil giant Rosneft, stands as one of Samara's largest, boasting an annual production capacity of seven million tonnes, as per its official website.

Azarov also wrote that another drone attack, this time on the Novokuibyshevsk refinery in the region, was repelled without causing damage to the facility's technological equipment.

Meanwhile, the Russian defense ministry released a statement detailing the destruction of “12 Ukrainian drones” during overnight operations. These strikes targeted regions bordering Ukraine, including Bryansk (5 UAVs), Belgorod (5 UAVs), and Voronezh (one UAV), alongside one UAV downed in Saratov.

The Kyiv Post
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45724 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 7:44 am to
quote:

I agree, but believe that it is likely that russia will try to use it for anti Ukraine propaganda. Russia's Security Council suggests Ukraine "may have been involved in terrorist attack near Moscow" Update, it's already started: NEXTA @nexta_tv FSB says terrorists allegedly had links with Ukraine It is reported that they allegedly tried to cross the Russian-Ukrainian border and had contacts on the Ukrainian side.


Pro-Russian accounts on social media are going all out to tie Ukraine to this attack. They are making the political board after 1/6/21 look sane.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5740 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 7:51 am to
Like I said Putin is going to use the terrorist attack for anti Ukraine propaganda. I don't think it was a false flag but think it is highly likely that russia intentionally allowed it to happen for propaganda purposes.

WarTranslated (Dmitri)
@wartranslated

Putin accuses Ukraine of preparing an escape route for the terrorists that attacked the Crocus City Hall in the Moscow region last night.

Putin Translated video implicating Ukraine

Putin's anti Ukraine propaganda regarding the attack will be amplified in the US social media including podcasts in the near future.
This post was edited on 3/23/24 at 8:18 am
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16137 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 7:52 am to
Atmospheric crude units (most refineries have multiple) is where it all begins. No crude unit, no products.

Depending on type of crude feed, a crude unit may have a preflash column, but will have a crude column, along with smaller diesel stripper and kerosene (jet fuel) stripper columns. For any decent sized refinery with multiple crude units, the crude column will be say 1 inch thick steel with a couple of inches of asbestos or calcium silicate formed insulation with a thin gauge metal (usually aluminum but could be stainless) covering. Piping from the top and sides would be the most vulnerable. They aren't under any real pressure from inside to pop like a balloon.
Posted by trinidadtiger
Member since Jun 2017
20268 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:09 am to

Al Jazeera.....

quote:

At least five people were killed and more than one million were left without power after Russia launched a wave of drone and missile strikes on Ukraine, targeting the country’s energy infrastructure.

Eight of the Russian missiles hit Dnipro Hydroelectric Station, Ukraine’s largest hydroelectric power plant, causing “significant damage” to the facility, the office of Ukraine’s prosecutor general said.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Russia had hit Ukraine with 90 missiles and 60 Iranian-made drones in a “war with people’s everyday lives”, and repeated his urgent appeal for Kyiv’s allies to supply air defence systems.


So now the ukranian people are not getting govt checks from the US, and they have no power or water, they are running to subways to avoid the bombings, and millions have abandoned the country or been killed/wounded.

They need to come to the table before they lose the entire country, this has gone beyond any realm of common sense.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5740 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:31 am to
Somewhat off topic, probably old news to historians (which I am not). Found it interesting though.

By December 1944, Albert Speer, the German Minister for Armaments and War Production, viewed the systematic attacks on Germany’s oil industry and the resulting fuel shortages as “catastrophic.” After searching for a truly strategic target system whose destruction would strategically adversely affect the outcome of the current war from 1940 forward, the Allied air leaders found that target system in Germany’s oil industry.

WWII Allied ‘Oil Plan’ devastates German POL production
Posted by RuLSU
Chicago, IL
Member since Nov 2007
8131 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 8:40 am to
quote:

Ukrainian FPV drone production is increasing by the month. It’s the one area of military production where it’s keeping up with or maybe surpassing Russian production.

Here's an important distinction:

Ukraine's confirmed drone manufacturing is outpacing Russia's claimed manufacturing.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21040 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 9:06 am to
quote:

The Putin administration has instructed Russian state-funded and pro-government media to emphasize possible “traces” of Ukrainian involvement in their reporting on Friday’s Crocus City Hall terrorist attack, according to Meduza’s sources.


Meduza is a respected independent Russian media source, now operating from Latvia.

LINK
Posted by LSUPilot07
Member since Feb 2022
8662 posts
Posted on 3/23/24 at 9:15 am to
Our air raids on places on like Ploiesti are what ground the German panzer units to a stop. No fuel no tanks. They still had plenty of aircraft, they actually were producing more planes at the end of the war than the start, but all their experienced pilots had been killed and they had to send poorly trained 19 year old kids up with little more than a couple takeoff and landings. Between the Russians on one side and then we using our bombers as bait to lure their fighters in the air so the P-51s could kill then really put the nail in Hitler’s coffin. If Ukraine wants to go this route they need to be able to reach the refineries even in the far east of Russia. I’m no expert but I assume most of their refineries conveniently should be located in the mid-southern part of Russia though am I right? That is where the Germans attacked to try to control the Russian oilfields.
This post was edited on 3/23/24 at 9:21 am
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