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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 2/27/24 at 11:27 am to VolSquatch
Posted on 2/27/24 at 11:27 am to VolSquatch
quote:
You're advocating for boots on the ground. You won't ever post that you are, and you'll likely deny it. But thats basically what you're saying here, and its crazy.
Maybe we shouldn’t make agreements we don’t intend to uphold. Youre making the guys point. We have a lot of agreements wherein we could be expected to put boots on the ground. If your ultimate logic is that would always “be crazy”, then those countries with which we have agreements need to take action in their own interest- pronto.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 11:28 am
1
Posted on 2/27/24 at 11:34 am to Hateradedrink
quote:
Maybe we shouldn’t make agreements we don’t intend to uphold.
Agree
quote:
We have a lot of agreements wherein we could be expected to put boots on the ground.
And in some cases that would be justified. In the case of Ukraine it is indeed a crazy notion.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 12:09 pm to LeClerc
quote:
That's a very simplistic, short-sighted, isolationist and selfish way to look at the world. It is so much more complicated than that.
Feel free to explain. There's no word limit here. Take your time.
Be sure to detail how a country that is literally half the size of its previous iteration poses an existential threat to the United States. A country whose economy and military is on the verge of collapse.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 1:03 pm to cypher
Russian aviation is having a really shitty month, especially Su-34 pilots. it must feel like closing your own coffin when they shut the canopy on the Su-34 right now. It’s a safe bet the vast majority of their most experienced pilots have been killed as well leaving guys with very little seat time and even less actual combat experience. Put that all together and you’ve got the recipe for even more to get shot out of the sky.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 1:05 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
There's no word limit here
I can do it in one word..
Nukes
Posted on 2/27/24 at 1:05 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
People who think Putin is anything like Hitler are beyond saving and comprehension
Say what you want, but Putin has acted similar to the way Hitler acted when it comes to negotiating treaties, breaking treaties and invading his neighbors. He has prisoned his enemies and had his enemies murdered too.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 1:08 pm
Posted on 2/27/24 at 1:33 pm to klrstix
quote:
Nukes
I knew someone would be stupid enough to mention Russia's nuke capability.
So, exactly how does a regional conflict in Europe threaten us because of Russia's nukes??? That's what we have our own strategic nuclear capability for based in our own country and the oceans. Russia controlling some land in Ukraine doesn't enable them to threaten us with missiles one bit. In fact, our strategic deterrent is in no way tied to NATO. I know "nukes" sounded good in your head and you really thought you had scored a gotcha! And, are you implying that Vlad is going to risk getting Moscow incinerated because he won in Ukraine? Really?
I know it's uncomfortable for you Slava Ukraine!!! types to accept, but Ukraine winning or losing has absolutely no effect on the United States. As I keep pointing out (and none of you will ever respond to) Ukraine was part of the USSR for 75 years and not only did it NOT negatively affect America; that 75 years saw America reach levels of prosperity never before seen in human history.
I find it amusing that liberals and Democrats sympathized with the USSR and ignored Hungary in '56, Prague in '68, openly supported North Vietnam, resisted and protested Reagan's SDI (for our own defense); yet, in Ukraine, when family members of Beltway VIPs are embedded in Ukrainian government agencies and NGOs all the sudden find that good ol' anti-Russian religion.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 1:40 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
I know it's uncomfortable for you Slava Ukraine!!! types to accept, but Ukraine winning or losing has absolutely no effect on the United States.
I think that largely depends on how someone views the larger situation. If you believe Russia will just take Ukraine and then stop, it has a very small effect on the US (other than the US breaking their promise to Ukraine, and how that plays out with other allies globally).
If you believe Ukraine is just an early step towards a wider conflict in which Russia continues trying to expand into the Balkins, Poland, etc than them taking Ukraine has a massive effect on the US as it's a march towards Russia starting WW3.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 1:40 pm to GOP_Tiger
Did you really just equate Great Britain in 1940 - one of the great powers in the entire world at the time possessing a vast, global empire - with a third-rate state like Ukraine*. Please tell me that's not what you meant.
*Never mind the long cultural, social and historical ties between the US and Britain.
*Never mind the long cultural, social and historical ties between the US and Britain.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 1:49 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
I find it amusing that liberals and Democrats sympathized with the USSR and ignored Hungary in '56, Prague in '68, openly supported North Vietnam, resisted and protested Reagan's SDI (for our own defense); yet, in Ukraine, when family members of Beltway VIPs are embedded in Ukrainian government agencies and NGOs all the sudden find that good ol' anti-Russian religion.
What is MORE amusing are the far right zealots who defend Russia at every turn. The same people who killed Americans in Korea, aided our enemies in Vietnam, and who have 100s of nukes pointing at us. The same people who conquered Eastern Europe and put up an iron curtain to keep it while using their tanks to control the populace.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 1:51 pm to OleVaught14
quote:
If you believe Ukraine is just an early step towards a wider conflict in which Russia continues trying to expand into the Balkins, Poland, etc than them taking Ukraine has a massive effect on the US as it's a march towards Russia starting WW3.
Russia has completely wrecked their own military. Those morons have resorted to dusting off T-62s and T-72s. They're fricked militarily for decades. And, now, they are going to just roll through the Fulda Gap if they win in Ukraine?
How did the USSR not conquer Western Europe at the height of its powers when they already had Ukraine and the NATO countries were relatively weak? But, now, with Russia literally half the size it was and Western Europe collectively larger and more prosperous, they're going to just keep on rolling? They've exposed themselves to be the bumbling incompetents they are.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:11 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
There's no word limit here
Technically you're correct, it's a character limit of 7900
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:13 pm to OleVaught14
quote:
I think that largely depends on how someone views the larger situation. If you believe Russia will just take Ukraine and then stop, it has a very small effect on the US
Theres no fact based argument to be made that he wants to keep going, and theres no logical argument that they have the capability anymore.
The Crimean annexation happened immediately during and after overthrow of the Russian-backed government that eventually became an early version of what we see today.
June 2021 in Bucharest, NATO leaders confirm that they stil plan on Ukraine joining NATO. By November Russia starts amassing troops on the border. I believe Putin met with Biden in November or December 2021 about this topic, and Biden didn't budge on NATO membership for Ukraine. The invasion happens shortly after.
That isn't a justification, just to put that on the record. Ukraine should be allowed to do what it wants to do (even if I don't think they should be admitted into NATO). But there is clearly cause and effect going on here with Putin and Ukraine. I just don't see the whole "madman bent on dominating Europe/reunited the old USSR" angle.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:16 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
How did the USSR not conquer Western Europe at the height of its powers when they already had Ukraine and the NATO countries were relatively weak?
George Patton, Ike, and millions of Americans were armed and ready to stop them. And then there were our nukes.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:17 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
especially Su-34 pilots. it must feel like closing your own coffin when they shut the canopy on the Su-34 right now. It’s a safe bet the vast majority of their most experienced pilots have been killed as well leaving guys with very little seat time and even less actual combat experience. Put that all together and you’ve got the recipe for even more to get shot out of the sky.
I mean I agree they are having a shitty month. But they had roughly 400 su-34 and over 100 su-35. I don't think they've lost most of their pilots by a long stretch (for better or worse)
LINK
Wiki
Wikipedia puts the number of su-34 closer to 150 and SU-35 at 118, but the point still applies
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:28 pm to StormyMcMan
They may of had 150 produced, but what is the “mission readiness rate” Do to maintenance ect likely no more then 30-40% are currently ready for combat missions. That have lost around 30 SU-34s which is about 20% of the initial 150 number.
Bottom line losing multi-million dollar platforms and cost/time of training pilots/crew is a large impact.
You don’t go to wal-mart and pick up a replacement.
Bottom line losing multi-million dollar platforms and cost/time of training pilots/crew is a large impact.
You don’t go to wal-mart and pick up a replacement.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:31 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
But, now, with Russia literally half the size it was and Western Europe collectively larger and more prosperous, they're going to just keep on rolling? They've exposed themselves to be the bumbling incompetents they are.But, now, with Russia literally half the size it was and Western Europe collectively larger and more prosperous, they're going to just keep on rolling? They've exposed themselves to be the bumbling incompetents they are.
Their military is inept but Russia is the acknowledged master of hybrid warfare. Sow indecisiveness and division between the NATO members and within the countries themselves. Fund separatist movements. If necessary, create them where none exist. Accomplish their goals piecemeal.
See: Donbas, Crimea, Armenia, Georgia, etc. Russia is already stirring up trouble among Russian speakers in the Baltic states. And Russia is benefiting from, if not actively encouraging, the political divisions in this country.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:41 pm to VolSquatch
quote:
Theres no fact based argument to be made that he wants to keep going.
Except for the explicit statements from the Russian foreign ministry and from the Kremlin's surrogates in the Russian media. Putin can sit back and make his arguments about a limited war to protect Russian interests. But Russia's not really hiding it's long term objective and that is to resurrect the Russian empire.
That may seem like an absurd goal, but it doesn't seem absurd to them and they can accomplish it if nobody opposes them.
This post was edited on 2/27/24 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:44 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Their military is inept but Russia is the acknowledged master of hybrid warfare.
Their social media/ messageboard success is amazing. You can easily spot the propaganda victims here.
Posted on 2/27/24 at 2:47 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
That may seem like an absurd goal, but it doesn't seem absurd to them and they can accomplish it if nobody opposes them.
They did win in Georgia and they did take over Crimea without anyone standing up to them. I’m guessing that they didn’t expect Biden or the West to do anything sbout Ukraine excrpt sanctions and speeches.
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