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Message
re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 12/1/23 at 8:10 am to StormyMcMan
Posted on 12/1/23 at 8:10 am to StormyMcMan
quote:
A recent Russian opinion poll indicates that the number of Russians who fully support the war in Ukraine has almost halved since February 2023 and that more Russians support a withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine than do not.
The Russian war in Ukraine has created new social tensions and exacerbated existing ones within Russia, which remain highly visible in the Russian information space despite ongoing Kremlin censorship efforts.
This goes to what I was saying yesterday about how the deciding factor in this war could be the will of the Russian people to bear the burden of a war for expansion and not defense. Putin is on the clock whether or not he wants to admit it.
quote:
Russian forces continued offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, near Avdiivka, west and southwest of Donetsk City, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast but did not make any confirmed advances.
This is Putin’s biggest problem. Russians are dying daily for apparently nothing.
1
Posted on 12/1/23 at 9:18 am to MoarKilometers
quote:
Upgrading and replacing outdated equipment was the literal reason the last administration bumped military spending 10%
How can something simultaneously be "needed to be disposed of" and effective in a war against a major military adversary.
Do you not see how stupid that is?
Posted on 12/1/23 at 9:24 am to Turbeauxdog
you really don’t understand how our military operates, do you?
Posted on 12/1/23 at 9:36 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
This is Putin’s biggest problem. Russians are dying daily for apparently nothing.
Conventional wisdom is that Russia has an enormous advantage in men and material. Time is on their side. They really don’t have to do anything, but dig in and let Ukraine exhaust themselves.
Well, many of the same things could have been said about Vietnam and we all know how that turned out.
The truth is everyone has their limits. The war isn’t just costing Ukraine lives; it is costing Russia lives. It isn’t just costing Ukraine and the West Billions. Russia is spending Billions also.
In the end will power and leadership will provide the difference.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 9:49 am to Hateradedrink
quote:
you really don’t understand how our military operates, do you?
Stupid and dysfunctionally from a budgeting and efficiency standpoint?
I'm starting to.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 10:24 am to Turbeauxdog
Dude, here's one easy example to help you:
The ATACMS rockets that we have sent to Ukraine are past their expiration date. That means that the US Army would not normally use them. The chemical components of rocket fuel can break down over time, and there's a risk that it could explode upon launch, or instead of going 50 miles, it might only travel one mile and hit our own troops.
If the US kept those rockets any longer, they would soon get the point where even storing them was unsafe, so disposal would become necessary.
But the Ukrainians are happy to accept the safety risks of expired ATACMS and use them to blow up Russian troops and military vehicles.
The end result is that we save money by giving Ukraine the rockets instead of disposing of them ourselve.
There are lots of similar examples: Javelins and Stingers fall into a similar category of us sending Ukraine weapons that are expired or about to expire, and then making new ones to replace them.
Older armored vehicles start to break down more often. They become uneconomical for the US Army to maintain, because of the cost of the parts and labor, and their unreliability means that the US would not want to depend on them during a conflict. So, we've put them in storage or are disposing of them. That's how various US police departments get MRAPs and Humvees.
But they are still useful to a country such as Ukraine, which doesn't have enough modern armor to turn up their nose at the older stuff. But when we send some to Ukraine, plenty of idiots here want to pretend that it means that we gave Zelensky a big bag of cash to buy a yacht or something.
The ATACMS rockets that we have sent to Ukraine are past their expiration date. That means that the US Army would not normally use them. The chemical components of rocket fuel can break down over time, and there's a risk that it could explode upon launch, or instead of going 50 miles, it might only travel one mile and hit our own troops.
If the US kept those rockets any longer, they would soon get the point where even storing them was unsafe, so disposal would become necessary.
But the Ukrainians are happy to accept the safety risks of expired ATACMS and use them to blow up Russian troops and military vehicles.
The end result is that we save money by giving Ukraine the rockets instead of disposing of them ourselve.
There are lots of similar examples: Javelins and Stingers fall into a similar category of us sending Ukraine weapons that are expired or about to expire, and then making new ones to replace them.
Older armored vehicles start to break down more often. They become uneconomical for the US Army to maintain, because of the cost of the parts and labor, and their unreliability means that the US would not want to depend on them during a conflict. So, we've put them in storage or are disposing of them. That's how various US police departments get MRAPs and Humvees.
But they are still useful to a country such as Ukraine, which doesn't have enough modern armor to turn up their nose at the older stuff. But when we send some to Ukraine, plenty of idiots here want to pretend that it means that we gave Zelensky a big bag of cash to buy a yacht or something.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 10:26 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:id bet my first born on it
plenty of idiots here want to pretend that it means that we gave Zelensky a big bag of cash to buy a yacht or something.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 10:36 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
The ATACMS rockets that we have sent to Ukraine are past their expiration date. That means that the US Army would not normally use them. The chemical components of rocket fuel can break down over time, and there's a risk that it could explode upon launch, or instead of going 50 miles, it might only travel one mile and hit our own troops. If the US kept those rockets any longer, they would soon get the point where even storing them was unsafe, so disposal would become necessary. But the Ukrainians are happy to accept the safety risks of expired ATACMS and use them to blow up Russian troops and military vehicles
So I guess if there is a legitimate safety risk and we've given a large number of these to Ukraine there has been an explosion? If so, I'll retract and say we actually did give something we didn't need to Ukraine. If not I'll assume it's typical government bloat.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 11:10 am to Turbeauxdog
Want to know how I know you never served in the military without you telling me you didn’t serve in the military? It’s really not a hard concept to grasp. Our military is the most advanced in the world but even our older systems that we have taken out of service is still extremely useful to other militaries like Ukraine's. We would have to pay to have our old munitions destroyed so why not hand them over to Ukraine and write them off while at the same time killing Russians. Get it?
This post was edited on 12/1/23 at 11:21 am
Posted on 12/1/23 at 11:26 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
But they are still useful to a country such as Ukraine, which doesn't have enough modern armor to turn up their nose at the older stuff.
That and a lot of our older arms that are being replaced are still highly effective. The biggest problem is that while we have tons of still effective arms and armor, Ukraine has gotten only a trickle.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 11:41 am to Turbeauxdog
quote:
I can't believe people are honestly still believing this.
Ukraine got a bunch of HAWK antiair missiles. The HAWK antiair missile was developed in 1959 with many improvements since then. It is still 80% effective against aircraft. The US military no longer uses them and allies are replacing them too. It has a relatively small footprint and a range of around 30 miles or so.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/first-look-at-hawk-sams-now-in-action-in-ukraine
Posted on 12/1/23 at 12:08 pm to Auburn1968
Yes we have shitloads of armor and equipment in storage but you have to take into account first what it would take to get those mothballed tanks back into operating condition. Then, most importantly, you have to have the trained tank crews and maintenance staff as well as the huge logistics footprint that operating large numbers of M1A1s would require. It’s easy to say “send this, send that” but not as easy to make all the parts fit together.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 12:59 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
Yes we have shitloads of armor and equipment in storage but you have to take into account first what it would take to get those mothballed tanks back into operating condition. Then, most importantly, you have to have the trained tank crews and maintenance staff as well as the huge logistics footprint that operating large numbers of M1A1s would require. It’s easy to say “send this, send that” but not as easy to make all the parts fit together.
Where there is a will, there is a way. The Ukrainians are eager students and have a lot of related experience. It shouldn't have taken 2 years to send 31 Abrams tanks and a small flock of F16s. If we had the will, a single skilled contractor could train a lot of Ukrainian mechanics how to use an excess number of "hanger queens" to get and keep things running.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 4:18 pm to Auburn1968
quote:
What's new in the world?
?? Finland will teach citizens the rules of compliance with sanctions against the russian federation, — Finland's Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
??Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Finland, Hungary and Slovakia bought 30% more conversion services and 22% more nuclear fuel enrichment services this year, –– according to a report by the European Atomic Energy Agency.
??The Belarusian Red Cross ceased to be a member of the International Federation of Red Cross Societies. This happened because of the deportation of Ukrainian children.
?? The government of Estonia is looking for legal mechanisms for the deportation of persons who wish to obtain citizenship of the russian federation, –– said Prime Minister of Estonia Kaia Kallas.
LINK
quote:
The German arms manufacturer Rheinmetall wants to start production of armored vehicles in Ukraine next year, –– said the head of the company, Armin Pepperger.
He said that he expects an agreement with Ukraine on the production of Fuchs armored personnel carriers and Lynx infantry fighting vehicles at the beginning of the year. And after that start production of Fuchs within 6-7 months, Lynx — 12-13 months.
LINK
quote:
??Police detained a swindler who extorted money from the relatives of fallen soldiers in the Kharkiv region, –– National Police reports.
The perpetrator presented himself as an employee of the SSU and convinced relatives that their loved ones were alive and in captivity in russia. He assured that he could "release" them from captivity for a certain amount of money.
He faces up to 12 years in prison with confiscation of property.
LINK
Posted on 12/1/23 at 6:34 pm to Turbeauxdog
Let's take the old Abrams tanks have a 3 mile or so range and accuracy. Russian tanks are only accurate for half that. So yes, they work in Ukraine.
How many thousand do we have sitting in the Sierra Depot?
How many thousand do we have sitting in the Sierra Depot?
Posted on 12/1/23 at 6:37 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:
Yes we have shitloads of armor and equipment in storage but you have to take into account first what it would take to get those mothballed tanks back into operating condition. Then, most importantly, you have to have the trained tank crews and maintenance staff as well as the huge logistics footprint that operating large numbers of M1A1s would require. It’s easy to say “send this, send that” but not as easy to make all the parts fit together.
Ukraine has actual physics prof manning the Patriot batteries and have gotten them to do what the US hasn't.
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:46 pm to CitizenK
quote:
We would have to pay to have our old munitions destroyed so why not hand them over to Ukraine and write them off while at the same time killing Russians. Get it?
Of course they don't; they've been told this for over a year, and have to willfully reject it as wasteful misappropriation, because otherwise they'd have to admit that this isn't a boondoggle.
Its intellectual dishonesty at its finest. Bemoan the use of exiting service equipment, and claim impoverishment from the aid given to the Ukraine, even though the replacement gear has largely already been paid for and budgeted years ago.
This post was edited on 12/1/23 at 7:47 pm
Posted on 12/1/23 at 7:56 pm to BoardReader
post more
Posted on 12/1/23 at 8:15 pm to BoardReader
Surprisingly articulate for an Arkansas fan….
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