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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 8/20/23 at 6:55 pm to
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16095 posts
Posted on 8/20/23 at 6:55 pm to
Zelensky negotiating with new ally after Russia attacked the moon.

LINK
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 8/20/23 at 7:05 pm to
Here's another way to look at the situation around Robotyne. I marked in black the distance from the Ukrainian position east of Robotyne to the last fortified Russian line -- it's only seven miles.


Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4689 posts
Posted on 8/20/23 at 7:24 pm to
ISW Update

quote:

Key Takeaways:

Ukrainian forces conducted counteroffensive operations on at least two sectors of the front and advanced near Robotyne.

Ukrainian strikes against Russian deep rear areas are generating discontent in the Russian information space and sparking criticism of the Russian military command, as Ukraine likely intends.

Ukrainian strikes on Russian rear areas are demonstrably degrading the morale of Russian forces in Ukraine, which could threaten the stability of Russian defenses.

The Netherlands and Denmark confirmed that they will transfer F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine but did not specify when.

Russian officials have reportedly drafted a plan to conduct a decade-long ethnic cleansing campaign in occupied Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast.

Wagner Group commanders accused two high-ranking Wagner representatives of betraying Wagner, possibly representing a growing fracture within the Wagner leadership and suggesting that the Kremlin’s and Russian MoD’s efforts to disband Wagner are partially succeeding.

Russian forces conducted offensive operations near Kupyansk, Kreminna, Bakhmut, along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line, and in western Donetsk-eastern Zaporizhia Oblast on August 20 and marginally advanced near Bakhmut.
Wagner Group fighters continue to commit violent crimes after returning to Russia.

Russian officials continue to forcibly transport mothers and children from occupied Ukrainian territories to Russia under the guise of medical retreats.


quote:

Ukrainian strikes on Russian rear areas are demonstrably degrading the morale of Russian forces in Ukraine, which could threaten the stability of Russian defenses on multiple critical areas of the front. Russian frontline units, particularly in southern Ukraine, have frequently struggled with degraded morale following Ukrainian strikes on rear areas.[9] Morale issues can quickly intensify and spread among Russian frontline units if one unit under pressure breaks, which could spread panic and significantly reduce the combat effectiveness of other Russian forces. A broken Russian frontline unit would threaten the integrity of other frontline defenses, and such a break in the Russian frontline would provide a vulnerability that Ukrainian forces could exploit. Russian forces also likely lack the necessary reserves to rotate out or quickly replace a broken unit, as ISW has previously assessed, making the preservation of morale in frontline units imperative.[10] Morale issues pertaining to the Russian defense against Ukrainian counteroffensive operations are only relevant if Ukrainian forces can degrade Russian morale to the breaking point and take advantage of it; these morale issues will not matter if Russian forces do not break under this pressure. There is no way to predict if, when, or where a Russian unit might break under sustained pressure, but Ukrainian forces are setting conditions to increase the likelihood of such a development.

Russian milbloggers criticized the Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) for not preventing an alleged Ukrainian drone attack on Soltsy airbase in Novgorod Oblast on August 19 and for downplaying the severity of the damage to aircraft based there. The Russian MoD claimed on August 19 that Russian forces shot down a Ukrainian drone using small arms and that a fire damaged one aircraft but that firefighters promptly put out the fire.[11] Images published on August 20 reportedly show a Tu-22M3 (NATO reporting name Backfire-C) long-range supersonic bomber on fire at the Soltsy airbase.[12] A Russian insider source claimed that witnesses said that fire damaged or completely destroyed two aircraft.[13] Several Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian forces used a small and relatively inexpensive quadcopter drone to conduct the attack and criticized the Russian MoD for not storing the aircraft in hangars, noting that even elementary protective structures and nets are reliable against quadcopters.[14] The damage or even destruction of two Tu-22M3 aircraft will not generate militarily significant effects in itself, but Russian milbloggers’ responses to the attack show the way in which such deep attacks support larger Ukrainian efforts to degrade Russian morale.


quote:

Russian officials have reportedly drafted a plan to conduct a decade-long ethnic cleansing campaign in occupied Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported on August 20 that Ukrainian partisans gained access to a Russian occupation development document that stipulates a 300,000 increase in Mariupol’s overall population by 2035 through migration from Russia.[23] The Resistance Center reported that an existing preferential mortgage program for Russians who move to occupied Mariupol is a part of this resettlement effort.[24] Russian occupation officials have engaged in a series of efforts to attract Russian citizens to the occupied territories in Ukraine, although this alleged document is the most detailed account of the extent of the Kremlin’s long-term repopulation goals.[25] Mariupol had a pre-invasion population of over 400,000 people and roughly 120,000 residents remained in the occupied city as of May 2023.[26] The Russian siege of Mariupol during the first phases of the Russian full-scale invasion killed up to 25,000 Ukrainian civilians and displaced hundreds of thousands from the city.[27] Russian officials reportedly deported an additional 50,000 residents from the city to Russia and other occupied territories in the months following its capture.[28] The development document’s repopulation goals indicate that the Kremlin intends to remake Mariupol as a predominantly ethnic Russian city after engaging in a systematic and likely intentional effort to depopulate the city of ethnic Ukrainians. ISW continues to assess that the ongoing Russian efforts to deport Ukrainians and repopulate Ukrainian cities with imported Russian citizens likely amount to a deliberate ethnic cleansing campaign in addition to being apparent violations of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.[29]
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45690 posts
Posted on 8/20/23 at 7:25 pm to
quote:

If a breakthrough eventuates there is not a lot of space to trade for time to stabilise the situation as the 2 major fortification lines defending it are within several kilometres of each other. With the slow progress thus far this may be a moot point, a lot will depend on how well defended the subsequent lines are, and how quickly a retreat could be effected to them.

Comparatively the section leading directly to Melitopol has at least one extra major fortification line which have been more heavily constructed and the defensive depth between the major lines is over 50% greater than those along the Robotyne section.

Melitopol itself is the southern strong point of a line extending south west from Tokmak between the northern access roads for Melitopol, the T0401 and E105, that overlooks the Molochna river. That whole section has been constructed on the premise they would need to defend attacks from the east.



If a breakthrough occurs it will be because Russia is low on supplies at one of its strongpoints. Russia has already had to resort to using old ammunition that misfires and the amount of old shells they are having to use is increasing weekly if not daily. The Russian supply lines from Crimea come to the front through Melitopol or come from Russia via Mariupol => Berdyansk=> Tokmak.

Capturing Robotyne puts Melitopol in HIMARs range of the front. Capturing Robotyne also puts Tokmak within range of Ukraine's M777s and other western artillery.



Resupplying all those fortifications is going to to be a biotch if HIMARs take out the rail bridge on Molochna River or if the rail yards in Tokmak are in artillery range of the front. That will lead to some weak points that Ukraine can exploit after the mud season especially since if the mud is heavy a lot of the minefields will washout.
Posted by Auburn1968
NYC
Member since Mar 2019
26821 posts
Posted on 8/20/23 at 7:28 pm to
quote:

Here's another way to look at the situation around Robotyne. I marked in black the distance from the Ukrainian position east of Robotyne to the last fortified Russian line -- it's only seven miles.


The weakness of a static defense is that it can't be moved. If Ukraine gets behind the wall of mines, the Russians are trapped in their own design.
Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
784 posts
Posted on 8/20/23 at 8:23 pm to
quote:

The further that Ukraine goes to the east, the fewer gullies and streams it will have to cross. That's important in any time, but it's especially important as mud season approaches this fall. The swampy land around Tokmak and Melitopol is ill-suited for any kind of Ukrainian action over the late fall and winter months.


Very much on point from my end.

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/display.aspx?sp=107133693&s=2&p=101373605#107133693

Back in March I thought that taking Tokmak and opening the Berdyansk route was the most feasible plan given that at the time routes to Melitopol were already being heavily fortified and it provided them the best means of cutting Russian supply lines while bringing Kerch Bridge into better range to really isolate the Western held areas and at that point they could at the very least force Russia back to Crimea and put themselves in a very strong position for negotiations.

Since then the further fortification around Tokamk and subsequent slow progress from Ukraine has made that scenario no longer possible in my view, though there were indications they still attempted it early on.

The delay in kicking off their offensive due to the slow walking of support (though I understand the points why this was the case and in some cases agree with them, and in some cases agree with them) really hurt the feasibility of this plan as it was only in those intervening months from March to June that Russia seriously fortified beyond Tokmak itself.

In the face of this Ukraine looks to be adapting within their plan to revise objectives to gain momentum leading into the fall, cutting logistics was always their goal in my mind for this phase of the war and it now remains to be seen what they can achieve towards this.

Isolating the front line to the east from Tokmak and making progress south will not be as significant as what could have been achieved but it will still pose a significant concern for Russia as the lines in that direction are not nearly as established though the terrain is more beneficial to a defensive posture.

The big question for me is whether Ukraine will have the combat power left to achieve that before things close down due to the weather after what has been a very hard slog thus far.



Posted by Philzilla
Member since Nov 2011
2227 posts
Posted on 8/20/23 at 9:11 pm to
quote:

Putanists

The new version of “Russia, Russia, Russia”.
And as based in reality.
When did you serve?
Posted by Hateradedrink
Member since May 2023
4156 posts
Posted on 8/20/23 at 9:28 pm to
quote:

When did you serve?


Literally irrelevant
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
21020 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 5:29 am to
Ukrainian sources now saying that they have completely retaken Robotyne.
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5722 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 6:22 am to
British Defence Intelligence
INTELLIGENCE UPDATE
UPDATE ON UKRAINE 21 August 2023

Russia is expanding its military structures in the face of wartime realities. One new formation is highly likely - the 18th Combined Arms Army (18 CAA).

The formation is likely to be an amalgamation and uplift of other units currently operating in Kherson Oblast, including 22nd Army Corps, the force which usually constitutes Russia's garrison in occupied Crimea.

18 CAA is likely to consist mostly of mobilised personnel and to focus on defensive security operations in the south of Ukraine. Russia likely aims to free up more experienced units to fight on key axes. There is a realistic possibility that this has led to the recent re-deployment of airborne forces from Kherson to the heavily contested Orikhiv sector.
Posted by Mr Happy
Member since May 2019
2732 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 6:42 am to
Holland will send 41 F-16s to Ukraine.

This post was edited on 8/21/23 at 6:47 am
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4689 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 8:29 am to
quote:

LSUEnjoyer
(No message)


Anybody else notice that he deletes all his posts?
Posted by ColtRange
Member since May 2023
1002 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 9:23 am to
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
16095 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 9:56 am to
Whoop ti do!

Why would anyone want to be in that shithole?
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:01 am to
Lol, do I know how you are a dumbass? The travel advisory to Belarus has been in place since February 2022, and was updated on the State Department's website on July 26th, 2023 with references to COVID removed.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45690 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:05 am to
quote:

he delay in kicking off their offensive due to the slow walking of support (


The offensive was not delayed. The western media and ppl postin on twitter created that fantasy. I have talked to several colonels in the UAF whose units were preparing for a late summer offensive but were forced into a spring offensive when they found what looked like a weak spot. Western leaders pressured Ukraine into launching the offensive too early before most of the mining clearing equipment had arrived.

quote:

The big question for me is whether Ukraine will have the combat power left to achieve that before things close down due to the weather after what has been a very hard slog thus far.


Yes Ukraine still has the combat power to exploit a breakthrough. However, Russia is also rebuilding its combat strength and Belarus is likely to enter the war at some point and Ukraine has to keep those things in mind.
Posted by Play_Neck
Member since Dec 2014
2284 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:08 am to
quote:

Russian officials have reportedly drafted a plan to conduct a decade-long ethnic cleansing campaign in occupied Mariupol, Donetsk Oblast.


this part is just sad (as is most of what goes on in war I suppose...)
Posted by ColtRange
Member since May 2023
1002 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:21 am to
quote:

Lol, do I know how you are a dumbass? The travel advisory to Belarus has been in place since February 2022, and was updated on the State Department's website on July 26th, 2023 with references to COVID removed.


Is this a thread for updates or melts? You only seem to provide the latter. Border crossings are closing and it sounds like more on the way.

Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:25 am to
quote:

Is this a thread for updates or melts? You only seem to provide the latter. Border crossings are closing and it sounds like more on the way.



I'm begging you to go read the actual travel advisory, you stupid frick. Because the tweet you posted isn't new news. And what you just posted is an alert from the US Embassy about the border situation, which, again, is not what your original tweet included.
Posted by ColtRange
Member since May 2023
1002 posts
Posted on 8/21/23 at 10:31 am to
quote:

I'm begging you to go read the actual travel advisory, you stupid frick. Because the tweet you posted isn't new news. And what you just posted is an alert from the US Embassy about the border situation, which, again, is not what your original tweet included.



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