re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

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I noticed a mod did some cleanup of troll posts in the thread over the last few minutes. I am bad about it too but maybe if we don't feed the trolls the mods won't have to do as much work to clean up and might do it more often.

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Or if that's too much work they could always just enforce the no trolling rule. It's mostly the same 5 or 10 guys.


*and I'm not referring to people who are against our involvement and provide genuine arguments supporting their views. I'm talking about the straight up trolls like winston.

There’s always going to be trolls on this page, it’s just the nature of the beast with war. You have people who take sides and others who are just the crazies. I get the feel that the war is being attempted to be a party line issue instead of a military and world stage implication issue that it really is. I feel like this page’s trolls tries to tie Democrats to wanting the war and Republicans to opposing it. I’m a staunch 100% Republican but I also don’t want war, no one does, but I believe it was the only decision the Ukrainians had. Ukraine was not only one of the Soviet Union’s largest areas in land mass but also they were huge providers to their economy and military with the steel plant in Mariupol, the tank factory in Kharkiv, Antonov aircraft, etc. Putin wanted that back and figured the world wouldn’t lift a finger and call it an internal dispute. Ukraine like their former Soviet bloc countries wants to be separated from Russia in all ways. This is also a very big business investment for the U.S. too in a way. Bringing Ukraine’s industry to the west more money as after the war they will eventually be ordering from several defense companies to westernize its army in order to be accepted into NATO. Just imagine a NATO airbase in Odesa looking right over the Black Sea. The implications of this war are huge.

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I get the feel that the war is being attempted to be a party line issue instead of a military and world stage implication issue that it really is

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No question. This has always been the case. If this invasion happens under trump and trump threw support behind Ukraine, democrats would be sky screaming that we have an unfit commander in chief driving us headlong into world war 3, and the right would be gung go to light up some ruskies.

It’s just a general mistake we commonly make -trying to understand world events through the prism of American Politics or American Race Relations or LSU coaching blunders.

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Just imagine a NATO airbase in Odesa looking right over the Black Sea

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I mean NATO doesn't really need Ukraine for an airbase in Odesa when we they already have Romania.

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On the territory of Romania, the main focus is on improving the operational capabilities of the national air force bases for reception, deployment and support of tactical and military transport aircraft of allies in the NATO bloc. As
the key objects of the selected airbase kampia of tursi, Fetesti Otopeni and M. kogalniceanu.

A total of 13 civil airfields are planned for major reconstruction by 2020, which, if necessary, will be able to
provide additional opportunities for deployment of the Alliance's aviation units.

To ensure the activity of NATO ships and vessels in the black sea zone, facilities on the territory of the Russian Federation may be used Romania (Constanta and Mangalia) and Bulgaria (Varna and Burgas). Elements are currently being cast
infrastructure of naval bases in accordance with the standards of the Alliance. In this case, the main attention is paid to
it focuses on dredging, reconstruction of berthing facilities, creation of infrastructure for fuel storage and
refueling ships of the Alliance's navies, strengthening security measures at facilities and the surrounding area.

For the transfer of NATO troops and military supplies to the Eastern flank of the Alliance, it is planned to use
the Romanian port of Constanta and the Bulgarian ports of Burgas and Varna.

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LINK


Also found this map

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The same people believing in Nazis and biolabs in Ukraine trashed Obama for not doing anything (as I did too) when Russia took Crimea and the Donbas 9 years ago.

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I remember back when people claimed that Clinton was involved in the Balkans strictly to wag the dog.

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Rail to any of these ports adds cost, thus takes away money from revenues for Ukrainian internal grain elevators. Even barge transport costs real money. Corn in Iowa is $2 a bushel cheaper than it is at export terminals at Port Allen and below, where the vast majority arrives but much cheaper transport, barges. Sure it is a solution but at a cost.

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Cheers for the reply. That is where the feasibility comes in from my perspective, would the added costs make it prohibitive?

While I am sure legally it couldn't be done, using some of those seized Russian assets to offset cost increases would be one way to do it and thwart their attempts at what is essentially extortion.

Edit: Clarity

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Absent this year's conditions and demands, the prior grain deal allowed Russia to export it's own agricultural and fertilizer products... exempt from U.S. and EU sanctions.

The Russian's hid behind altruism and a concern for global food security. Bull shite. It's about money and their own exports.

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Cheers, this is an adjacent article that explores the deal in a bit more detail, interesting how pressure was applied on Russia from North African and Persian Gulf nations to back the deal, and there seems to be a significant import need for agricultural goods to meet their internal needs, notably agricultural machinery parts, seeds for crops and meat in the form of swine and fowl stock.

https://carnegieendowment.org/politika/87576

Essentially the key difference compared to the old grain deal Russia wants SWIFT opened up to them again so it is very much as you said, it is about money - but hey the sanctions aren't working...right?

This looks to be the first recorded use of the newly arrived cluster munitions by Ukraine, geolocated as well.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1682040734785101824 - Video

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Krasnohorivka, Donetsk Oblast, Ukrainian forces dropped a salvo of DPICM on a Russian infantry assault towards the town.

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Kirby: Ukraine is using cluster munitions 'effectively'

by Elsa Court and The Kyiv Independent news desk July 21, 2023 12:17 AM

Ukraine has started to use cluster munitions within the last week and is using them "effectively" US National Security Council Coordinator for Strategic Communications John Kirby told reporters on July 20.

The weapons "are actually having an impact on Russia’s defensive formations and Russia’s defensive maneuvering," Kirby added.

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Rail to any of these ports adds cost, thus takes away money from revenues for Ukrainian internal grain elevators. Even barge transport costs real money. Corn in Iowa is $2 a bushel cheaper than it is at export terminals at Port Allen and below, where the vast majority arrives but much cheaper transport, barges. Sure it is a solution but at a cost.

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All that grain was transported to the ports on trucks, simply redirect this years harvest to a rail hub in Romania, not perfect but no need to send anything to a port in the first place