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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 3/13/23 at 8:56 am to
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
2531 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 8:56 am to
quote:


That it was at the deepest point of its length is quite telling. Much easier to repair in place.


One of the two Nord Stream 2 pipes is still operable. I wonder why it wasn't damaged.
Posted by IAmNERD
Member since May 2017
19268 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 8:58 am to
quote:

Amid continued skepticism that holding Bakhmut is beneficial to Ukraine, Zelensky continues to insist that it is.

If the Bakhmut map posted a couple pages ago showing the different units is accurate, those Territorial Defence units in the eastern part of the salient have got to be getting pretty antsy.

I just don't understand it. Yes, they're taking out thousands of Wagner conscripts along with some Russian regulars here and there, but just looking at all those units in the area on the UA side is crazy. They've had plenty of time to fight out of there and still inflict significant losses on the Russians. They're flirting with getting a lot of their force captured or killed if just one or two things go wrong. Granted, we don't have the information the decision makers have, but I just don't get it.

Maybe those brigades with the Leopards really are forming up to the west for an assault and the UA forces in Bakhmut have been told they must hold until the counter. Just seems like you could pull back and regroup without incurring so many losses. But, I'm just an armchair general.
Posted by LeClerc
USVI
Member since Oct 2012
2739 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 9:14 am to
Azov steel mill 2.0
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
3690 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 9:16 am to
quote:

I said, if Nord Stream was a Russian false flag operation, then it's a really bad one. Cuz the whole point of a false flag is to blame someone else.


I honestly think it was a state actor, but who would want to own up to it? There are serious down sides for everyone who would have had a reason to attack it (in terms of international relations). I doubt we will ever know the truth
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17899 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 9:18 am to
quote:

One of the two Nord Stream 2 pipes is still operable. I wonder why it wasn't damaged.


The most logical explanation was that the charges on it failed to detonate.

But, if that were the case, the investigation would certainly have found those unexploded charges.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17899 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 9:24 am to
This video is much more intense than you might guess.

From @wartranslated:

LINK

quote:

"We have no rounds!"

Yury Mezinov, a "A Just Russia" party functionary from the Rostov region, claims the shortage of ammunition in the Russian army is felt along the whole frontline. He believes it is sabotage as he cannot find another explanation.
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
9525 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 9:44 am to
quote:

The most logical explanation was that the charges on it failed to detonate.

But, if that were the case, the investigation would certainly have found those unexploded charges.


If not then one to limp along. The charges were not all nearby, one set was miles away. That is a lot of pipeline to survey with ROVs
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
9525 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 9:48 am to
quote:

I honestly think it was a state actor, but who would want to own up to it? There are serious down sides for everyone who would have had a reason to attack it (in terms of international relations). I doubt we will ever know the truth


Most likely but as I've stated before, regular offshore divers who have performed decommissioning and removal of offshore production platforms have been doing this for over half a century just offshore Louisiana. It is a single charge somewhat like a rope and in the case of a caisson type support, cleanly severs the caisson, and alternate layers of cement & casing inside it easily 1 foot thick of layers.
Posted by Celery
Nuevo York
Member since Nov 2010
11093 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 10:49 am to
quote:

Ukraine killed “more than 1,100” Russian fighters in Bakhmut in the past week, Zelensky said in his nightly address


Ukraine is holding Bakhmut to kill 157 Russians a day. That is a lot of people, no doubt, but relative to overall casualties it doesn’t seem like an overwhelming amount.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17899 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 11:31 am to
Girkin hates Prigozhin, of course, and this is likely flavored with spite, but still ...

via @wartranslated:

Posted by OutsideObserver
Oceania.
Member since Dec 2022
773 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 4:33 pm to
Not just Prigozhin, he is pretty negative on the Russian MoD as well in this clip according to translation.

Twitter - @Gerashcenko_en

Below is the full video. It was posted 3 days on YouTube by the @IgorStrelkovOfficial channel. However it is only created in February with 20 videos currently and video may be being reused as he is wearing the same shirt as some much older clips from December (or he has a limited wardrobe). They do mention the spring thaw and other events that started in late Feb/early March though so it looks to be more recent.

Youtube - @IgorStrelkovofficial - Igor Strelkov and Vladimir Grubnik - Results of the winter campaign... need to use auto translate subtitles which is mediocre at best so take with a grain of salt

At one point (starts around 20 minutes) they are discussing the Russia artillery shell consumption versus production levels and he claims having seen reports (at around 31 minutes), without naming them, that puts it at 10:1 meaning their production is at worse levels than the West (Roughly 5:1 based on European and U.S. production of 480,000 rounds a year versus 6000 rounds used in Ukraine daily). If Russia is using 20000 daily it means their annual production would then be roughly 730,000 as a 10:1 consumption ratio. This doesn't take into account stockpiles at the beginning of the war nor their condition for actual use.

Shell consumption (both sides) and production figures (West):

Wayback Machine (to get around paywall) - Economist - West is Struggling to forge new arsenal of democracy. 19th Feb '23

Edit: TD didn't like Russian characters for the YouTube channels name.
This post was edited on 3/13/23 at 4:34 pm
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17899 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 4:40 pm to
Today is Day 3 of essentially no significant progress for Russia in Bakhmut. On Twitter, @heliosrunner claims that he got three different reports (one of them from a commander) stating that Russia only made very minor progress in the south of the city.

Here's a new Washington Post story about the defense of the T0504 road, the one remaining good road in and out of Bakhmut:

quote:

The maneuver has cut off virtually all roads — except Highway T0504, a two-lane hardball that connects to Bakhmut’s southwestern edge and is so vital that troops have branded it “the highway of life.”

“It’s the only road left in which we can evacuate the wounded, evacuate the dead,” said Maj. Oleksandr Pantsernyi, the commander of the 24th Separate Assault Battalion, one of the units responsible for defending the corridor. Just as important is the road’s role in sustaining the fight, he said, by enabling the movement of ammunition, water and fresh troops east.

“If we don’t do our job, the defense of Bakhmut will last for a day or two,” said Pantsernyi, 26. “And all people who are there will stay there forever.”


quote:

The 24th has pummeled Russian positions with aging Soviet howitzers and fought soldiers inside trenches at fisticuff range. The unit also trains at nearly every available moment. It helped support a massive operation involving thousands of soldiers Thursday and Friday, as machine-gun fire and howitzer shell explosions rolled across the coal-packed hills in service of a crucial objective: to pry the alligator’s jaw open.
quote:

A lieutenant with the call sign Hook held court with a platoon of soldiers wielding plastic airsoft guns to teach them how to assault buildings in open terrain. Teams of two took cover in the rubble of a chemical factory, then ran into a garage. “Move! Move! Move!” Hook shouted. The soldiers quickened their steps, suppressing phantom gunmen with volleys of plastic pellets.
quote:

While Western backers proclaim that they are streaming equipment into Ukraine, soldiers said the supply becomes a trickle when the gear is doled out — even at the epicenter of fighting closely watched by senior Ukrainian officials. This has made their task of holding the road and stifling Russian advances harder and riskier, they said.

A surveillance-drone operator called Aviator said the battle for the skies has come down to commercial equipment often sourced from China. He uses a DJI Mavic 3 drone to search for enemy positions and patch in live video for artillery commanders so they can refine strikes in real time.

The Russians, in turn, have a DJI device that can detect his drone’s flight path and launch location — information used to fire at Ukrainian positions, he said.
quote:

Chichen, 26, an artillery battery commander, his brow furrowed and pierced, constantly shifts between his phone, tablet and the aerial shots of Bakhmut’s apocalyptic landscape, looking to turn more Russian positions into smoldering rubble with his set of four D-30 howitzers.

The Bakhmut battle has taken a toll on the unit, he said. Of about two dozen assault operations in the area, only one ended without casualties. The darkest day, he said, involved an operation northeast of the city in the fall that left more than 150 soldiers dead, wounded or missing. “Even if you win, you still lose,” he said. “You go in knowing it will be hell.”
quote:

Compounding the difficulties, he said, was the condition of the artillery pieces, which are twice as old as Chichen, ground down from use and repaired at least 10 times already, making them less reliable with every volley.

Then there is the ammunition. Artillery is a delicate skill, with cannoneers assessing topography, air pressure and even the weather at the top of the round’s parabolic arc before taking a shot. Another variable, Chichen said, is the shell’s fuse and explosives, which vary according to where they are made. The unit has had shells from Pakistan, the Czech Republic and elsewhere, soldiers said.

And there are not enough shells. At the start of the invasion, Chichen said, he would fire about 300 rounds a day. Now, it’s closer to 10 a day, with far more targets than the ammunition needed to hit them.




quote:

But Chichen and his men did not dwell much on limitations Friday or become distracted by Zelensky’s honoring of 24th soldiers as heroes of Ukraine. His howitzers were trained on the southwest edge of Bakhmut, where the T0504 cuts into the city. Drones buzzed in the air, hunting for the enemy.

There were clear setbacks during the mission. The drone feed captured an enemy strike on Ukrainian forces, and there were soon reports of wounded. “Oh, [no],” a soldier cursed, with the resignation of someone who had seen such a moment before.

Another explosion flashed on screen at a house where Russian forces took shelter. The soldiers watching erupted in cheers twice; during the initial hit, and again after a second feed on a delay showed a different angle, like a touchdown replay.


Some observations:

- Many of the soldiers defending this critical road are recently mobilized. That's why, when they have a break, they have a lieutenant leading them in basic infantry training drills with airsoft guns.

- The drone unit here has only cheap, off-the-shelf, Chinese Mavic 3 drones.

- The artillery unit uses D-30 Soviet guns. The D-30 first entered service in 1960, so these guns are all likely over 50 years old.


So, articles like this are why I get frustrated when people say "Oh, Ukraine is wasting its best men and equipment in the defense of Bakhmut, and now it won't have them for its spring offensive."

NO. The spring offensive will not be led by just-mobilized men who have not completed any real training. It will not use ancient Soviet howitzers. It will not feature off-the-shelf commercial drones which can easily be disabled by Russian EW.

Then, I look in Twitter and see frustrated comments like this one, from one of the two Washington Post reporters who wrote the story:

quote:

Pretty much every Pentagon briefing touts how US/Western assistance is getting to the front, and then soldiers tell you they buy Chinese night vision goggles online and fire decrepit howitzers older than their parents


If you ever work at a high level in any field, you know that the reporters which cover your field are often idiots. This guy (and lots of the commentariat) are just confused. The front is HUGE, and Ukraine's military is now five times larger than it was 14 months ago. There's no way for all those new military units to get the latest NATO equipment, much less to position it everywhere along the front lines.

And Bakhmut is not important. I would hope and expect that the Ukrainian forces at Vuhledar have more modern equipment, as a successful defense of Vuhledar is critical for victory in the spring offensive.

And almost all the new NATO gifts are being gathered for that offensive. If they were fed into existing units on the front lines now, their strength would be diluted.


TLDR: I get frustrated when I see critics making contradictory claims:

1) that new NATO equipment should be getting to Bakhmut for its defense, and

2) that Ukraine is ruining its offensive potential by defending Bakhmut.
Posted by tigeraddict
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2007
11816 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 5:35 pm to
quote:

Today is Day 3


Bakhmut will fall within 72 hrs……



Sorry, had to do that. Been hearing 72hrs for a while now

And thanks for the articles. I always like reading stories of rim boots on the ground to get a better perspective.
Posted by GOP_Tiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2005
17899 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 6:20 pm to
quote:

And thanks for the articles.


You're welcome. There's another long Washington Post article (generally pessimistic about Ukraine) that I'm not going to bother with right now, except this bit:

quote:

U.S. officials said they expect Ukraine’s offensive to start in late April or early May, and they are acutely aware of the urgency of supplying Kyiv because a drawn-out war could favor Russia, which has more people, money and weapons manufacturing.


LINK

Ukraine really can't wait much longer than that. All the aid that NATO promised in January and February is basically for this offensive, and it's obvious that a lot of future aid depends on its success. So, while Ukraine might not be as ready as they would like by the beginning of May, the political imperative will be to launch the offensive.

If and when Ukraine reaches the Sea of Azov, then there will be an appeal to Congress for more military aid -- Ukraine has no chance of getting anything without a significant victory. And European countries will do the same. And then the next phase of the war will begin.
Posted by IAmNERD
Member since May 2017
19268 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 7:13 pm to
quote:

Ukraine has no chance of getting anything without a significant victory. And European countries will do the same.

What's next in the hypothetical that Ukraine doesn't secure any significant success with their new toys they're amassing now? Does the west just stop all aid except maybe some small arms and ammo? Do all the NATO countries just start mobilizing for the eventual shooting war with Russia and start transitioning to a wartime economy and build up massive surpluses? Because if the flow of weapons that gives UA the tech advantage stops, Russia will eventually roll over the entire country and Poland is gonna get extremely antsy with Ruskies at the border.

Crazy Europe-wide hypothetical with a lot riding on Ukraine being able to perform with our equipment this spring and summer...and perform well.
This post was edited on 3/13/23 at 7:14 pm
Posted by ghost2most
Member since Mar 2012
6628 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 7:17 pm to
Everything the Russians have dumb is stupid, except…

Clearing out their prisoner trash. Would be awesome if we could somehow just get rid of a hundred thousand pieces of human trash wasting our tax dollars in jail
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
3690 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 7:20 pm to
quote:

build up massive surpluses


This is going to happen over the next decade or longer regardless of what happens the next few months. This war showed that most if not all countries are woefully understocked for any kind of drawn out conflict
Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
9525 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 7:34 pm to
quote:

Clearing out their prisoner trash. Would be awesome if we could somehow just get rid of a hundred thousand pieces of human trash wasting our tax dollars in jail


Depends what sort of productivity they had in prison. Take the Fed system where prisoners make things like wiring harnesses for jet fighters which is very low cost labor.
Posted by IAmNERD
Member since May 2017
19268 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 7:35 pm to
quote:

This is going to happen over the next decade or longer regardless of what happens the next few months

No doubt. But in the scenario I put forth, I was wondering if we would start seeing some going to more of a traditional wartime economy (without necessarily being "at war") where nearly all of a State's industry starts feeding the war machine in some fashion.

But you're correct in that those big stockpiles shrink pretty quick.The needs on the ground often don't line up with what the brass have been theorizing for years.
This post was edited on 3/13/23 at 7:39 pm
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 3/13/23 at 7:37 pm to
No. Europe can’t afford to cut its entitlement programs to make bullets. Why would they? They all know big daddy USA will come save them if it ever comes to that.
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