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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 12/14/22 at 12:31 pm to TigerDoc
Posted on 12/14/22 at 12:31 pm to TigerDoc
I am unsure as to the status of this thread going forward. If this is deemed inappropriate for the OT, then I hope it can be moved to the PT without losing the history of posts.
If relocated to the Poli Board, then I hope there will be adequate moderation of the thread otherwise this will die a fairly fast death.
For those of you who have contributed over the months, thank you. I appreciate your viewpoints, information, and commentary.
If relocated to the Poli Board, then I hope there will be adequate moderation of the thread otherwise this will die a fairly fast death.
For those of you who have contributed over the months, thank you. I appreciate your viewpoints, information, and commentary.
5
Posted on 12/14/22 at 12:41 pm to StormyMcMan
quote:
ETA: I understand trying to be diplomatic
The Diplomatic/Neutral argument is kinda silly imo since you have already sold the stuff to a foreign entity..
Posted on 12/14/22 at 12:50 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
I am unsure as to the status of this thread going forward. If this is deemed inappropriate for the OT, then I hope it can be moved to the PT without losing the history of posts.
I would think that there is still enough of a news and current events focus in this thread to keep it on the OT. If anyone has any questions about whether a side topic crosses the line to politics, perhaps we should ask jeffsdad for a verdict. He’s really good at sniffing out overtly political garbage.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:02 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
I am unsure as to the status of this thread going forward. If this is deemed inappropriate for the OT, then I hope it can be moved to the PT without losing the history of posts.
Wait ... what did I miss? We're discussing a war, not US politics. Why would this get moved to the Poliboard?
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:07 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
I am unsure as to the status of this thread going forward. If this is deemed inappropriate for the OT, then I hope it can be moved to the PT without losing the history of posts.
If relocated to the Poli Board, then I hope there will be adequate moderation of the thread otherwise this will die a fairly fast death.
For those of you who have contributed over the months, thank you. I appreciate your viewpoints, information, and commentary.
Monitoring what is happening in that war shouldn't be one bit political. You and many posters have been doing an excellent job with this thread even under the attacks by trolls.
I don't think I could follow this thread over on the Poli Board, especially if the moderation is anything like it has been since MAGA.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:09 pm to Chromdome35
This is not a political thread. It’s about the events occurring in Ukraine because of Russia’s invasion.
War is not political. In this case, it’s an event wherein one party, Russia, is trying to forcibly take land and people from another party, Ukraine.
If the politards will stay out of the thread, we can limit discussion to this very important event which is affecting the entire world.
War is not political. In this case, it’s an event wherein one party, Russia, is trying to forcibly take land and people from another party, Ukraine.
If the politards will stay out of the thread, we can limit discussion to this very important event which is affecting the entire world.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:19 pm to Kentucker
quote:
War is not political.
War is absolutely political.
It’s the final arbiter of any political dispute.
Name one war that isn’t political.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:32 pm to Philzilla2k
Any current event of global significance is going to have political aspects and yes, for wars especially so. In spite of this, there has been a community norm here that the discussion be relatively de-politicized with admittedly mixed results, but there are more good-faith posters in this thread who are truly trying to understand the war than troll nihilists (the poliboard's counterpart to this thread couldn't say the same) and this is largely a credit to thread regulars who mostly self-police the norm.
Overall, this thread is a good example of how a message board can provide non-sociopathic (mostly
) discussion space for current events that allows readers to understand an important current event better. I would understand if it was moved if other current events aren't to be discussed on the OT, but I would hope that given its unique status of being a 10-month old thread with >2200 pages that it would be grandfathered in to kept here until the war comes to an end.
Overall, this thread is a good example of how a message board can provide non-sociopathic (mostly
) discussion space for current events that allows readers to understand an important current event better. I would understand if it was moved if other current events aren't to be discussed on the OT, but I would hope that given its unique status of being a 10-month old thread with >2200 pages that it would be grandfathered in to kept here until the war comes to an end. This post was edited on 12/14/22 at 1:36 pm
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:34 pm to Philzilla2k
This is an interesting but long read about Russia's perspective:
Russian military analyst discusses the impact and scale of the Western military aid in the war against Russia
Russian military analyst discusses the impact and scale of the Western military aid in the war against Russia
quote:
From the first days of hostilities, Europe and the United States proceeded from a very specific logic, the essence of which was that after inflicting a certain percentage of losses on the Russian Federation in manpower and equipment, it was believed that Moscow should have abandoned its plans and agreed to peace negotiations. For this reason, deliveries were targeted, their goal was to stop certain advantages of the Russian army: superiority in tanks, artillery, and naval forces.
The problem with this approach lies in the very logic of the fact that the notorious “percentage of losses” can generally have at least some influence on the Kremlin or the internal situation in the Russian Federation. Western planners left out of their calculations a fact that should have been taken into account at least from the point of view of military history – Russia is a country with extremely low sensitivity to losses. You can laugh at it, you can dispute it, you can consider it insignificant, but building a strategy based on ignoring such basic principles of national psychology and perception turned out to be not only absurd but also a fatal mistake.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:36 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
If this is deemed inappropriate for the OT, then I hope it can be moved to the PT
That would be the death of it. In general I think it's a good idea to keep the tribal politics off of the OT. But that is a huge problem for this thread. Politics within NATO and Russia will likely determine the outcome. But if this is moved to the political talk board and the loons over there see the title every time they look - it will be entirely unreadable within a day.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:41 pm to Mr Happy
Anyone who has read about the history of Russia should know that their ethics and morals are not aligned with those of the West. Mongols have had a decided influence with corruption and genetics.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:42 pm to Kentucker
quote:
War is not political
You sound like the people who say "Vietnam was a political war". What war isn't?
Posted on 12/14/22 at 1:51 pm to LSUPilot07
quote:True. Looking down on others is the Swiss national psyche. They don't get along with anyone in Europe. And yes, that neutrality is certainly a one-way street.
You can always count on the Swiss to have their noses stuck so far up in the air they can smell a fart from 1,000 miles away. Their neutrality bullshite is a little tired as they use it when they feel like it and then other times find ways to bypass it when they can make money.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:00 pm to Mr Happy
I wonder if these efforts will have any impact on the war.
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1603077426782687232
https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1603077426782687232
quote:
The Russians are improving their defensive lines in the Belgorod region. They are now connecting the dragons teeth with steel wire and adding concertina wire. Source: LINK
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:20 pm to Mr Happy
quote:
Western planners left out of their calculations a fact that should have been taken into account at least from the point of view of military history – Russia is a country with extremely low sensitivity to losses. You can laugh at it, you can dispute it, you can consider it insignificant, but building a strategy based on ignoring such basic principles of national psychology and perception turned out to be not only absurd but also a fatal mistake.
This has become starkly apparent as this thing drags on.
It's shocking to me how the Russians can failure after battlefield failure, with losses of tens of thousands of men, and their propagandists call for increasing the depths of human suffering. There is no bottom for most of these people.
It is starting to appear that the only way for this to end is to completely destroy Russia's ability to continue to fight and hold land. At that point Russia will have no more national security because they will be militarily defeated. But that would be the critical time for Ukraine to stop. It is possible that Russia won't capitulate until nuclear weapons are all that they have left.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:24 pm to Chromdome35
quote:
defensive lines in the Belgorod region.
Isn't that inside Russia? If so, it will only serve to keep the Russians from fleeing their own country through that space. There's no risk of a Ukrainian land invasion into Russia.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:31 pm to TBoy
quote:
defensive lines in the Belgorod region.
My guess is that it is a psychological ploy to convince the Russian people that Ukraine is a threat to attack Russia.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:32 pm to TBoy
Yes, to what extent they believe a Ukrainian invasion is an actual threat I don't know. It may be a combo of make-work for untrained conscripts who they don't think are combat ready and providing images to support Kremlin claims that there's a threat (which would prop up support for the war).
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:43 pm to TBoy
quote:
This has become starkly apparent as this thing drags on.
It's shocking to me how the Russians can failure after battlefield failure, with losses of tens of thousands of men, and their propagandists call for increasing the depths of human suffering. There is no bottom for most of these people.
This has been the case centuries with Russia. They don't care about human life, including their own, and suffering, also including their own.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 2:43 pm to TBoy
quote:
It's shocking to me how the Russians can failure after battlefield failure, with losses of tens of thousands of men, and their propagandists call for increasing the depths of human suffering. There is no bottom for most of these people.
The willingness of Russia to sustain gargantuan losses should come as no surprise to anyone with even a passing knowledge of Russian history.
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