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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:25 pm to
Posted by cypher
Member since Sep 2014
5645 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:25 pm to
HIMARS strikes ammunition depot in Kherson Oblast and the blasts are so big that they shatter windows.

About as close as you'd want to get...or maybe a little too close.

Twitter video - HIMARS strike
Posted by OldmanBeasley
Charlotte
Member since Jun 2014
11171 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:31 pm to
That was an impressive explosion
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45551 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

That is not true. Ukraine had been receiving aid for some years and used Western Anti tank equipment at the start....

Those weapons were a key point in stopping Russian tanks early on.

Keep it real Baw....


That is not true either baw. Ukraine killed more tanks with its own Stugna-P anti-tank missile than it killed with western provided ones. However, what really allowed Ukraine to defeat the Russians in the initial invasion was 8 years worth of fighting experience amongst its soldiers as well as western training. However, even without that western training they would figured out to take out the Russian tanks. Ukraine used the same tactics as the Russians used in the summer of 2014 and the winter of 2014-2015 and they found out hard way that you have to use tanks and infantry together or else your tanks are sitting ducks because even the old RPGs made in the 60s and 70s can take out a Soviet tank if they shoot it in the arse after it passes them. Western aid and weapons definitely helped, and western training made their tactics more efficient. However, the majority of the tactics they used to defend Kyiv were tactics they developed on their during the 8 years of war prior to this invasion, and most of the weapons they used were Ukrainian or Soviet made.
Posted by facher08
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
6068 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:35 pm to
quote:

HIMARS strikes ammunition depot in Kherson Oblast and the blasts are so big that they shatter windows.


Doesn't appear to be from this latest push according to the comments.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:37 pm to
quote:

Crimea is Ukraine


quote:

Be mindful of Turkey, they hate Russia for the Azerbaijani genocide in Armenia. They also hate Russia for the deportation in killing all the Crimean Tartars



Nobody in that region wants the Russians in Crimea.

The Crimean Tatars are playing a large role in the insurgency in Crimea and they are well supplied by....Turkey
Posted by TutHillTiger
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
49830 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:45 pm to
We are here because of the complete and utter failure of diplomacy, and understanding of each other’s concerns etc. There is plenty of blame to go around, and the Russians have some legitimate beefs.

That said, this is Putin’s war and is really about him trying to relive or revive a past that has long been dead. It has nothing to do with NATO or their legitimate grievances, it’s all about Putin trying to reinstall the old Russian Republic, which is about as bad as Italy trying to bring back the Roman Empire.

Russia is no longer a world power, it’s just that simple in his haste to prove they are still a world power, Putin has proved the exact opposite. They are still a nuclear power but then so is India, Israel, and Pakistan.
Posted by Chromdome35
Fast lane, behind a slow driver
Member since Nov 2010
8164 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:56 pm to
[link]https://twitter.com/ChuckPfarrer/status/1564609158955016199[/link]
quote:

KHERSON /1345 UTC 30 AUG / Information continues to evolve. Sources indicate that a multi-pronged UKR attack is developing on multiple axes of advance. UKR continues to interdict crossings of the Dnieper, making reinforcement, resupply or withdrawl difficult for RU commanders.

Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30448 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:59 pm to
quote:

Those pictures you posted are of a M777(A2) 155mm towed howitzer and M1083A1P2 armored cargo truck.


Aww man, I hadn't been back to this thread and was preparing a forensic analysis to show it was a Triple Seven and an FMTV. I shouldda known someone here would have caught it.
Posted by JayDeerTay84
Texas
Member since May 2013
9956 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 5:02 pm to
quote:

That is not true either baw. Ukraine killed more tanks with its own Stugna-P anti-tank missile than it killed with western provided ones. However, what really allowed Ukraine to defeat the Russians in the initial invasion was 8 years worth of fighting experience amongst its soldiers as well as western training. However, even without that western training they would figured out to take out the Russian tanks. Ukraine used the same tactics as the Russians used in the summer of 2014 and the winter of 2014-2015 and they found out hard way that you have to use tanks and infantry together or else your tanks are sitting ducks because even the old RPGs made in the 60s and 70s can take out a Soviet tank if they shoot it in the arse after it passes them. Western aid and weapons definitely helped, and western training made their tactics more efficient. However, the majority of the tactics they used to defend Kyiv were tactics they developed on their during the 8 years of war prior to this invasion, and most of the weapons they used were Ukrainian or Soviet made.


They had thousands javelins before the war started and I remember seeing a report that around march and up to that date, the javelin systems had a 93% effective rate on Russian armor.

I dont get these takes really. Either Ukraine is fine or not. Which is is? They need the help or they are dont?
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 5:07 pm
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 5:02 pm to
quote:

That is not true either baw. Ukraine killed more tanks with its own Stugna-P anti-tank missile than it killed with western provided ones. However, what really allowed Ukraine to defeat the Russians in the initial invasion was 8 years worth of fighting experience amongst its soldiers as well as western training. However, even without that western training they would figured out to take out the Russian tanks. Ukraine used the same tactics as the Russians used in the summer of 2014 and the winter of 2014-2015 and they found out hard way that you have to use tanks and infantry together or else your tanks are sitting ducks because even the old RPGs made in the 60s and 70s can take out a Soviet tank if they shoot it in the arse after it passes them. Western aid and weapons definitely helped, and western training made their tactics more efficient. However, the majority of the tactics they used to defend Kyiv were tactics they developed on their during the 8 years of war prior to this invasion, and most of the weapons they used were Ukrainian or Soviet made.



Nearly every video I’ve seen of Russian columns has tanks with IFVs or APCs alongside them. I’m pretty sure the vast majority of Russian infantry is mechanized or at least motorized to travel with their tanks. Their BTG is specifically designed for tanks and infantry to work together. I don’t know where this notion that Russia doesn’t combine its infantry and armor forces. All evidence clearly says that they do. It just doesn’t work as well now with the proliferation and commonality of highly effective AT rockets and missiles.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45551 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 5:27 pm to
quote:

Well, I don’t know about such subtleties on which side there should be a loop or a step,


That is why you fell for the false propaganda. It is the little things that make the difference.

quote:

the Russian army doesn’t even have such equipment.


The Russian army does not unless it has captured some from Ukraine. The USA donated 108 older MTVs 5 ton truck to Ukraine to carry artillery ammunition.

quote:

Are you saying that I brought poor quality proof?


You brought proof destroyed Ukrainian vehicles originally supplied by the USA. However, you did not bring proof of a destroyed HIMARs. The trucks are similar because the HIMARs is based off the MTV 5 ton truck, but the giant metal pole sticking up on both sides of the rear end indicates it is a supply truck.
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45551 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 5:34 pm to
quote:

They had thousands javelins before the war started and I remember seeing a report that around march and up to that date, the javelin systems had a 93% effective rate on Russian armor.



The war started in 2014 and it had 0 Javelins. Ukraine had 173 Javelins before this invasion started in February. It was given those javelins by President Trump btw.

quote:

I remember seeing a report that around march and up to that date, the javelin systems had a 93% effective rate on Russian armor.


That does not mean that Javelins took out 93% of Russian armor.

quote:

I dont get these takes really. Either Ukraine is fine or not. Which is is? They need the help or they are dont?



Both. Ukraine would have stopped the Russians on their own but they would have lost more men because they would have had to get closer to the Russians to shoot their tanks in the arse with an RPG than they had to get to shoot them with Javelins.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 6:43 pm
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45551 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 6:31 pm to
quote:

I already answered these questions a month or two ago. Don't you remember?



No a month ago I was in Kharkiv treating innocent civilians wounded by random Russian shelling. I have seen the war and the up close with my own eyes. I have seen the Ukrainian women who have been raped by Russian troops and I have heard their stories with my own ears. Most importantly I have experienced the Russian war crimes in person. I heard Russian soldiers talking on unsecure radios trying to hit a civilian aid station run by the international red cross. Luckily your equipment is terrible or your soldiers cannot aim. My Russian is not great but it was good enough to understand a Russian commander yelling "V grebanuyu bol'nitsu! Bol'nitsa! Bol'nitsa - eto bol'shaya palatka s krasnym krestom! Pochemu vy, shlyukhi, ne mozhete popast' v gigantskiy krasnyy krest?" at his troops over the unsecured radio. The only thing I have not done is find who pissed on my pants during the shelling.

quote:

Questions 1 and 2
Russia gave guarantees of its non-aggression and in response asked for similar ones for itself,
that is, the non-bloc status of Ukraine and the non-deployment of missile weapons there.
Thus, both points would be mutually beneficial to all parties. But this is if there would be an independent government in Ukraine.


Russia never made such guarantees. Russia told Ukraine demilitarize while at the same time putting 200,000 troops on its border.

quote:

At one time, Hitler invaded the USSR and Stalin is still scolded for allowing this.
Putin did not make such a mistake and struck first. I brought here proofs confirming that in the spring or summer Ukraine was planning strikes against Donetsk, Crimea and the territory of the Russian Federation
This is one thing, and the second, having not received security guarantees for the Russian Federation from NATO and seeing its inevitable expansion, took care of its own security on its own.


Most of that is a load of horse shite and you know it. If Ukraine had the military power to strike Donetsk, Crimea, or Russia. Why did it not strike any of those targets in the past? The only thing that is true is that Putin and Hitler both invaded a neighboring nation.

quote:

The fact that the pocket government planted on the Maidan, not completely independent and controlled from the United States,
decided to "join", does this mean "Ukraine wanted to"?
After the Maidan, they didn’t even want to hold a referendum. the result would be against entry.


A government that was elected with over 70% of the vote in a free and fair election with international observers is not a pocket government. I realize that you are a Russian and Russians do not understand the concept of an election that is not already rigged to decide the winner.

quote:

Of course, in the Russian Federation, no one is happy with the large number of deaths. But everyone, even schoolchildren, understand that if we don’t protect ourselves now, then we will have a war in Russia.
There is also little joy about Finland. But at least there is consolation that they can be neutralized relatively easily. Like the Baltics.
I am glad that we see the exchange. Weak Finland and Sweden are joining NATO, and


Sweden and Finland are now off limits to Russia. Now thanks to Finland joining NATO the USA can put THAADs or the Aegis Ashore system in northern Finland and intercept any ballistic missile launched from the arctic. Also the shipping lanes into and out of Murmansk are now within range of land based ASM in a NATO nation. Plus NATO now has two more countries to stage stealth fighters in. Since Russia has been unable to knock out the weak Ukrainian Air Force. What makes you think Russia could ever hope to defeat NATO air power?

quote:

powerful Turkey is in the process of falling out of it.
In the United States, this is still poorly visible, but we see certain symptoms


Turkey has been part of NATO since 1952. Just because Turkey bought 4 S400 launchers and wanted Finland and Sweden to extradite people who had been charge with crimes in Turkey does not mean that leaving NATO.

quote:

Because Ukraine is only in the next separate state, and in our part it is part of the Russian lands and peoples.


Ukrainians are not Russians and do not want to be Russians. If they wanted to be Russians they would thrown down their arms and the special military operation would not still be going on.

quote:

As compelled and necessary. In the end, there will be security for the Russian Federation, safe for residents who are lucky enough to live in the liberated territories, they will not be oppressed like the last 8 years.
Russia will return historical lands, workers will appear. A lot of people from Ukraine are already coming to us.
At first, they do not believe their eyes and ears. Because what they were told by their TV is some kind of parallel reality.
When they sober up from Ukrainian propaganda, I start calling home, to Ukraine and telling "in fact, everything is not so ..."
For their sake, this operation must go to the end.


The Ukrainian people have not been oppressed for the last 8 years. The Ukrainian people are not the ones being feed lies. Russia is the nation that is lying. Russians like yourself are the ones who are living in an alternate reality because of propaganda. I am sorry to tell you but your nation is the nation full of fascists and war criminals. As I have said above. I have seen those war crimes with my own eyes. Heard the orders being given to commit them with my own ears. Felt the ground shake from the shells landing around a field hospital that was clearly marked with a red cross indicating it was a nonmilitary target. Held and tried to comfort terrified children in my own arms.

quote:

my son is in the army.


I hope that he is lucky enough to not get wounded or killed. If he is unlucky and does get wounded then I hope he does not end up in a field hospital that his fellow Russian soldiers are intentionally hit with artillery. Also I hope he is careful about where he throws his cigarette after he has finished smoking it. There have been a lot of incidents caused by Russians who were too casual with their cigarettes.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 6:42 pm
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45551 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 6:35 pm to
quote:

Nearly every video I’ve seen of Russian columns has tanks with IFVs or APCs alongside them. I’m pretty sure the vast majority of Russian infantry is mechanized or at least motorized to travel with their tanks. Their BTG is specifically designed for tanks and infantry to work together. I don’t know where this notion that Russia doesn’t combine its infantry and armor forces. All evidence clearly says that they do. It just doesn’t work as well now with the proliferation and commonality of highly effective AT rockets and missiles.


That is strange. It worked for the Ukrainians when they counter-attacked and drove the Russians from Kyiv and Kharkiv. However, there was one key difference. The Ukrainian used their small drones to survey the area around the vehicles. When they spotted something that looked suspicious soldiers actually got out of their armored vehicles and patrolled next to their armor and engaged the enemy. The Russian soldiers tried to shoot the enemy through the small gun slots in their armored fighting vehicles or they got out of them and hid behind them. Of course, the Ukrainians also banned smoking in and around their tanks and armored vehicles. Maybe it was just simply better flame discipline that did it?
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 6:39 pm
Posted by StormyMcMan
USA
Member since Oct 2016
4669 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 6:47 pm to
quote:

Be mindful of Turkey, they hate Russia for the Azerbaijani genocide in Armenia. They also hate Russia for the deportation and killing all the Crimean Tartars


Just about a week or so ago

Turkey believes Crimea should be returned to Ukraine if agreement signed with Russia
According to Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the return of Crimea to Ukraine, of which it is an inseparable part, is essentially a requirement of international law
Posted by WeeWee
Member since Aug 2012
45551 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 6:50 pm to
quote:

Russian media: Ex-Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev dies.

Gorbachev was the general secretary of the Soviet Union's Communist Party from 1985 through 1991.
LINK

This already has its own thread on this board, but I thought it should be mentioned here since Gorbachev could not hold the USSR together long enough to transform it into the "Grand Commonwealth." If Gorbachev could have turned communist-lite "Grand Commonwealth" then we probably would not be discussing a war between Ukraine and Russia.

This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 6:55 pm
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 7:00 pm to
quote:

That is strange. It worked for the Ukrainians when they counter-attacked and drove the Russians from Kyiv and Kharkiv. However, there was one key difference. The Ukrainian used their small drones to survey the area around the vehicles. When they spotted something that looked suspicious soldiers actually got out of their armored vehicles and patrolled next to their armor and engaged the enemy. The Russian soldiers tried to shoot the enemy through the small gun slots in their armored fighting vehicles or they got out of them and hid behind them. Of course, the Ukrainians also banned smoking in and around their tanks and armored vehicles. Maybe it was just simply better flame discipline that did it?


Well in regards to Kyiv. Russian logistical failures played as big a pry as anything in the failure of that attack. Combined with, and I’m assuming here, some pretty solid targeting information from the US.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
30448 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 7:09 pm to
quote:

When they spotted something that looked suspicious soldiers actually got out of their armored vehicles and patrolled next to their armor and engaged the enemy. The Russian soldiers tried to shoot the enemy through the small gun slots in their armored fighting vehicles or they got out of them and hid behind them.


The problem is as you describe the Russians either do not know when to dismount or they are well chicken shite. The only time they seem to dismount is when their BMP is actually hit and even then they seem to have no desire to close with the enemy.


I am being too harsh because their doctrinal tactics are probably sound and their soldiers are probably no more scared than any other green grunt. It really comes down to lack of leadership. They are just missing the small unit leaders to provide the necessary motivation to get out of what they think is the safety of their tin can and get down to business. I will say this is especially hard when you send troops off to war without letting them know they are actually going to war. It takes time to process that and get into the correct (fricked up) mindset.
Posted by TutHillTiger
Mississippi Alabama
Member since Sep 2010
49830 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 7:14 pm to
The Russian army is just not well trained period. But in their defense almost none of their soldiers seems to want to be in this shitty war.

I would be surprised if 1000s to 10,000s of Russian troops surrendered if Ukraine was able to launch a huge counter offensive or cut them off

Posted by OleWar
Troy H. Middleton Library
Member since Mar 2008
5828 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 7:14 pm to
Communist lite is impossible. Ultimately it gets shitty for everyone and the government either has to fall or go hardline.

Your "grand-commonwealth" would have resulted in a civil war in Ukraine. The forces of nationalism were too strong in the early 1990s.

.
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