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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:39 pm to
Posted by Kentucker
Rabbit Hash, KY
Member since Apr 2013
20055 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

It is not in Russia that waves of mobilization are going on and conscripts are caught on the street, but in Ukraine


Russia invaded Ukraine. Of course the Ukes mobilized against the Orcs.

Posted by ned nederlander
Member since Dec 2012
5895 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

If this makes it to winter, whatever Territory is held by Russia at that point will likely remain so.


I have also thought the map as it looks when winter sets in will largely remain. For a myriad of reasons I don’t see full scale sprint/summer 2023 campaign in this war.

I still largely think that, although I also have been skeptical Ukraine could actually evict Russia from the West Bank of the Dnipro and liberate Kherson. If they can pull that off in the next month who knows what that does to the trajectory of the war and the west’s appetite to continue supporting Ukraine.
Posted by JayDeerTay84
Texas
Member since May 2013
9956 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:43 pm to
quote:

If they can pull that off in the next month who knows what that does to the trajectory of the war and the west’s appetite to continue supporting Ukraine.


I think now is around the time the Western aid can start calculating a return of sorts and I agree; timeline now is probably at the APEX.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 1:44 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:45 pm to
quote:

You can parse words with clever adjectives all you want, but I would think this is a very logical conclusion. Its not some wild conspiracy to say such.



It isn't, if we were talking about the entirety of aid. Why OML focused on Western Europe without considering they don't have very much leverage in this situation is one of his many mysteries. I suspect he wants to suggest that somehow Western Europe has a lot of leverage to get a brokered peace, or that Western Europe would somehow want Ukraine to capitulate, but like usual, he isn't thinking it through.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:50 pm to
quote:

Why OML focused on Western Europe without considering they don't have very much leverage in this situation is one of his many mysteries. I suspect he wants to suggest that somehow Western Europe has a lot of leverage to get a brokered peace, or that Western Europe would somehow want Ukraine to capitulate, but like usual, he isn't thinking it through.


Because Western Europe has more leverage over us than Ukraine does. And if they don’t just rationally speaking, then that means Biden is completely compromised by Ukranian oligarchs and that’s a national emergency. Britain, France, and Germany should all have more leverage over us than Ukraine or Russia does just from a mutual self interest.
Posted by Kentucker
Rabbit Hash, KY
Member since Apr 2013
20055 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:51 pm to
quote:

Ukraine is a territory that only 30 years ago was Russia.


Ukraine is a sovereign nation that wants to pursue its future independent of the Orc aggressors. It is not a rump state to Russia and is in the process of severing ties with that primitive nation once and for all.

Your wife will have to choose between you and Ukraine. I think she’ll choose Ukraine
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:51 pm to
Also:

Posted by CitizenK
BR
Member since Aug 2019
15671 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:56 pm to
Regarding WikiLeaks, its first releases regarding Libya in some deals which I was directly involved so have an actual clue unlike the vast majority.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 1:57 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

Because Western Europe has more leverage over us than Ukraine does. 


They absolutely do not. What are they going to do? The US determines the nature of that relationship, not the other way around. And a sea-change in policy doesn't happen overnight. You'd see diplomatic overtures and such being made right now if that was the plan of action in Western Europe. Again, geopolitics occurs along longer timescales than what you imagine about the convenience of the average European.

quote:

And if they don’t just rationally speaking, then that means Biden is completely compromised by Ukranian oligarchs and that’s a national emergency.


Idiotic.

quote:

Britain, France, and Germany should all have more leverage over us than Ukraine or Russia does just from a mutual self interest.


Again, the US is the senior partner in the arrangement. The US has done what it has wanted and European partners have had to go along for a while now. The mutual self-interest aspect is literally oriented around Russian interference in European affairs, which somehow you seem to discount. You aren't thinking this through, again.
Posted by GeauxxxTigers23
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
62514 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 2:07 pm to
The traditional Western European powers in general have much less influence over world events as most, especially themselves, would like to believe. They should be the ones contributing the bulk of aid to Ukraine but frankly, they’re too weak militarily and economically to really influence much with big brother backing them up.
Posted by OMLandshark
Member since Apr 2009
120445 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 2:08 pm to
quote:

They absolutely do not.


Well that’s a fricking problem then, since the only other country that has more leverage over us than Western Europe is China, and it’s only now we’re seeing that also is a national emergency. And now we’re held more to the whims con men? Ours and Western Europe’s goals and values tend to align.

quote:

Idiotic


Is it given the laptop and the emails?

quote:

Again, the US is the senior partner in the arrangement. The US has done what it has wanted and European partners have had to go along for a while now. The mutual self-interest aspect is literally oriented around Russian interference in European affairs, which somehow you seem to discount. You aren't thinking this through, again.


They’re not going along with this for much longer, and we need them as little effort and finances as they’re putting into this.
Posted by ruff fish
Member since Feb 2021
526 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 2:11 pm to
quote:

Ukraine wanted to join NATO to protect itself from invasion by the Russian Federation. The Russian Federation considers this unacceptable because it would put another NATO nation on its border. I have a some questions regarding that logic and I will ask them in both english and russian.

1. Why is it not acceptable for Ukraine to join to protect itself from the Russian Federation?

2. Why is it acceptable for the Russian Federation to invade Ukraine to protect the Russian Federation from NATO?

I already answered these questions a month or two ago. Don't you remember?

You write "Ukraine wanted to join NATO", what does this mean?
Question 3
At one time, Hitler invaded the USSR and Stalin is still scolded for allowing this.
Putin did not make such a mistake and struck first. I brought here proofs confirming that in the spring or summer Ukraine was planning strikes against Donetsk, Crimea and the territory of the Russian Federation
This is one thing, and the second, having not received security guarantees for the Russian Federation from NATO and seeing its inevitable expansion, took care of its own security on its own.

The fact that the pocket government planted on the Maidan, not completely independent and controlled from the United States,
decided to "join", does this mean "Ukraine wanted to"?
After the Maidan, they didn’t even want to hold a referendum. the result would be against entry.

Questions 1 and 2
Russia gave guarantees of its non-aggression and in response asked for similar ones for itself,
that is, the non-bloc status of Ukraine and the non-deployment of missile weapons there.
Thus, both points would be mutually beneficial to all parties. But this is if there would be an independent government in Ukraine.

Question 4
Of course, in the Russian Federation, no one is happy with the large number of deaths. But everyone, even schoolchildren, understand that if we don’t protect ourselves now, then we will have a war in Russia.
There is also little joy about Finland. But at least there is consolation that they can be neutralized relatively easily. Like the Baltics.
I am glad that we see the exchange. Weak Finland and Sweden are joining NATO, and powerful Turkey is in the process of falling out of it.
In the United States, this is still poorly visible, but we see certain symptoms

Question 5
Because Ukraine is only in the next separate state, and in our part it is part of the Russian lands and peoples.
Right now, the IAEA is going to the shelled nuclear power plant and fixes a multi-kilometer line of cars from Ukraine.
In the chains of people who are controlled by Kyiv from the outside, there are a large number of victims of the Nazis, where you can speak Russian fluently.
Why do you think they run to the Russians?

Question 6
Negative.

Question 7
As compelled and necessary. In the end, there will be security for the Russian Federation, safe for residents who are lucky enough to live in the liberated territories, they will not be oppressed like the last 8 years.
Russia will return historical lands, workers will appear. A lot of people from Ukraine are already coming to us.
At first, they do not believe their eyes and ears. Because what they were told by their TV is some kind of parallel reality.
When they sober up from Ukrainian propaganda, I start calling home, to Ukraine and telling "in fact, everything is not so ..."
For their sake, this operation must go to the end.

By the way, they asked me here why I'm not there, I answer I don't pass by age, but my son is in the army.

It's already midnight for me. If someone writes to me, I will answer everyone tomorrow
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 2:14 pm
Posted by TacoNash
Member since Mar 2020
715 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 2:14 pm to
quote:

By the way, they asked me here why I'm not there, I answer I don't pass by age, but my son is in the army.


Everyone may not agree with your point of view or what you say, but I would imagine having your son in the army during these times would be very stressful. May your son have good fortune and stay safe.
This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 2:16 pm
Posted by ruff fish
Member since Feb 2021
526 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

Ukraine is a sovereign nation that wants to pursue its future independent of the Orc aggressors. It is not a rump state to Russia and is in the process of severing ties with that primitive nation once and for all.

Your wife will have to choose between you and Ukraine. I think she’ll choose Ukraine

Orcs in this case are not us, but the United States.
Estimate my wife does not choose Ukraine, she is indignant why the Kremlin towers do not support the people of Texas or I do not know the way Florida will be in the liberation movement from the orcs from Washington.
Damn reading you think maybe she's right about something
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
39820 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 2:22 pm to
quote:

Well that’s a fricking problem then, since the only other country that has more leverage over us than Western Europe is China, and it’s only now we’re seeing that also is a national emergency. And now we’re held more to the whims con men? Ours and Western Europe’s goals and values tend to align.


Yes, they align in one specific thing in this case, which is to counter a Russian threat, but your argument is that the convenience of their citizenry is at stake, and thus they will take positions that won’t even resolve the primary issue, which is Russian control of European energy. Nothing you’ve said makes any sense.

quote:

Is it given the laptop and the emails?


Do you think US policy would be different under any other president? Again, stop getting your info from culture war sources and think for yourself for once. Russia has been explicit at trying to make a multi-polar world. US doctrine from the fall of the USSR onward has been to ensure that doesn’t happen. Put the pieces together.

quote:

They’re not going along with this for much longer, and we need them as little effort and finances as they’re putting into this.


What? They don’t have very many options. Your are hellbent on elevating relatively short-term concerns in the face of long-term issues, issues which have been central to European security for a long time. It’s a nonsensical position.
Posted by AGGIES
Member since Jul 2021
12293 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 2:26 pm to
Not thinking it through? Haha. That’s putting it mildly and politely.

Posted by facher08
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2011
6068 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:00 pm to
quote:

There is also little joy about Finland. But at least there is consolation that they can be neutralized relatively easily. Like the Baltics.


Posted by nitwit
Member since Oct 2007
13091 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:11 pm to
Presumably the Finns will be no match for that well-oiled war machine that Herr Putin has used to roll over Ukraine as if it were not even defended.
Posted by Lakeboy7
New Orleans
Member since Jul 2011
28324 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 3:30 pm to
quote:

Presumably the Finns will be no match for that well-oiled war machine that Herr Putin has used to roll over Ukraine as if it were not even defended.




RU has pulled everything that runs from the Finnish border, the time for the Finns to attack is now!
Posted by LSU7096
Member since May 2004
3008 posts
Posted on 8/30/22 at 4:20 pm to
Suka

Crimea is Ukraine

Donbas is Ukraine

Complaining about the Ukrainians defending their homeland is weak.

Be mindful of Turkey, they hate Russia for the Azerbaijani genocide in Armenia. They also hate Russia for the deportation and killing all the Crimean Tartars

This post was edited on 8/30/22 at 5:15 pm
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