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re: Latest Updates: Russia-Ukraine Conflict
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:51 am to SOSFAN
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:51 am to SOSFAN
quote:
If anyone says anything that is not 1000% in Ukraine favor you get called a Russian fan. This is what is wrong in this country there isn't any common ground anymore.
Oh BS!
Palmetto and the OM tard are just trolling this thread non-stop and that's what 90% of the last three days of posting have been about.
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Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:54 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
You spent a post entailing how bad Russia sucks at war but for some reason, we just funneled money to Ukraine for what then?
This would not be known without the current war, at least at a minimum to most of the world. Our intelligence seems to have nailed it, but presumably needing some confirmation to their intel that’s seemingly now been obtained. This war has undone the better part of 75 years of fear/respect of force for USSR/Russia.
quote:
Is Russia a joke or not?
No. They arent a joke. They have nukes.
And even Russia doesn’t/has just lobbed nukes when conventional warfare looks very challenging. The bar for use of nuclear weapons still remains high for those not named Iran or NK, though I think NK is largely a charade.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:55 am to lsu777
quote:
address my fricking points or you are just jacking off big bad putin and being a shite talking little bitch as usual who like most on the poliboard cant forma coherent arguement and flip flop on issues all the time.
This is what I’m talking about. Ignore the facts, stick to CNN talking points for cope. Call anyone that disagrees a Putin arse licker. You can snort all of the copium that you want, but Russia winning the war is the reality of the situation.
This post was edited on 6/13/22 at 9:56 am
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:56 am to SteelerBravesDawg
quote:
Idiot
Essentially and most definitely after Odessa is captured
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:57 am to Palmetto98
quote:
I’ll keep it simple for you: The money, resources, geopolitics are all in eastern and southern Ukraine. Kiev, Western, and northern all contain nothing of value other than sentimental. Once Russia completes the war and integrates the territories, it has turned Ukraine in to a giant land locked Moldova country. Ukraine will rot in hell, Zelensky will be overthrown, and you pro Ukies will find another country to put your flag on Facebook for. The story of the actor president that shamed Donald trump fell to big bad Putin.
Straight copium.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 9:58 am to JayDeerTay84
quote:
So what? Then why did we continue to send billions?
This, I think, is the issue most of us have.
I have a problem with the billions sent and spent and have posted such in this thread.
but i will say that it has essntially allowed us to do exactly what reagan did, spend money and collapse the Russians who at that time and now were ranked as the #2 military in the world. and honestly not that much money was spent to make that happen in the grand scheme.
I have problem with all foreign aide but atleast we are getting something back in return on this one. Much better than sending another 50billion to pakistan to be waisted by an enemy of the US.
not to mention that this whole thing has shown china and other shitholes.....that maybe its not a good idea to go and try and take land. Prolly has saved us money in the long run on getting China to back off taiwan.
quote:
You spent a post entailing how bad Russia sucks at war but for some reason, we just funneled money to Ukraine for what then?
wait hold on....are you trying to act like ukraine is some big bad military? even with our weapons they are second rate, just like the russians.
quote:
Is Russia a joke or not?
absolutely and now that we have crushed their economy and exposed them to be a paper tiger...yea they are
quote:
No. They arent a joke. They have nukes.
so does pakistan and india, both are a joke.
quote:
So yea, there is a "what".....
again what have they won? a crushed economy on the verge of collapse, a military in disarray and shown to be a paper tiger...your post doesnt make sense. "what have they won" give something concrete.
in the end we can prolly agree that we shouldnt be involved at all in all of this shite nor sending foreign aide to any country, especially with the shape our country is in. But if we are going to spend hundreds of billions in foreign aide....this was prolly to best money spent in 2 decades.
i 100% agree that this was a european war and european problem, but again, if we are going to spend money on bullshite, atleast getting something in return on this one.
now the fricked up and typical US response will be to turn around and send russia aide after we lift sanctions because they will have a humanatarian crisis....which you will here me bitching up a storm about.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:00 am to Palmetto98
quote:
This is what I’m talking about. Ignore the facts, stick to CNN talking points for cope. Call anyone that disagrees a Putin arse licker. You can snort all of the copium that you want, but Russia winning the war is the reality of the situation.
in other words, you cant address a single point i said.
and yea i sit around and watch cnn....dude i dont even watch tv hardly at all much less fricking watch cable news, no matter the station.
like i said....im far to the right of you politically and all you do is bring up cnn talking points when someone disagrees with you.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:04 am to Palmetto98
quote:
The story of the actor president that shamed Donald trump fell to big bad Putin
There it is. The sole reason you hate Ukraine. Because they shamed your lord and savior.
If Trump came out today and said he supported Ukraine, you'd have a Ukrainian flag off your front porch, and all your social media changed to a Ukrainian flag in five minutes flat.
This post was edited on 6/13/22 at 10:08 am
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:05 am to SOSFAN
quote:
Europe's largest nuclear reactor, all the coal mines, shipping ports just to name a few.
ok thats soming concrete atleast. Did russia have an eneregy crisis though that they needed the nuclear reactor? Was teh energy crisis so bad that it was worth crashing their economy to get it?
the coal mines...again did they have an issue with energy before that im un aware of? are these fields, the nuclear reactor worth more in the long run than they lost?
shipping ports....ok but didnt they already have crimea for this? did the lack of warm water ports cause them issues before this year? Do they have so many exports that they needed extra ports?
but thank you for atleast providing concrete answers. I dont agree that those items are worth remotely what they have lost, but atleast we can have a conversation without the name calling and accusations of being a putin/Zelenskyy lover
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:13 am to lsu777
quote:
so lets say they take all of ukraine
They aren't trying to take all of Ukraine right now. Western Ukraine needs to militarize and ally with some Eastern European countries. Any additional move against Ukraine should be painful. Don't let the Ruskies take Odesa.
The west just can't accept Russia marching in military and taking down sovereign counties. Anybody over here in the US who finds any satisfaction with that is sick. We now live in a new world where we have to stay on our toes to prevent geopolitical disasters for us. It's been nice for the past thirty or forty years doing close to nothing but things have changed.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:19 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
The west just can't accept Russia marching in military and taking down sovereign counties.
while i may agree to a point, can you tell me how it damages the US in any way shape or form?
understand i am being the contrarian here.
quote:
Anybody over here in the US who finds any satisfaction with that is sick
agree 100%
quote:
We now live in a new world where we have to stay on our toes to prevent geopolitical disasters for us. It's been nice for the past thirty or forty years doing close to nothing but things have changed.
have they?
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:33 am to lsu777
quote:
while i may agree to a point, can you tell me how it damages the US in any way shape or form?
understand i am being the contrarian here.
I'm assuming you may be a 777 pilot? You should be analytical if so. The Russians will not stop at Ukraine. They will hammer any bordering country they perceive a threat to whatever it is they are threatened by. There have never been a more paranoid, nationalistic and easy to manipulate people in the Russians. The dictator says that country bad, we need to attack and they do. They would like to destroy the influence of the US. So regardless of what is left of Ukraine in a year or so, this will not be over for the US now for a generation. Being a contrarian to your contrarian attitude, that's the way, shape and form as I see it. But there will be a diversion in football season in September so there's that.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:42 am to lsu777
quote:
while i may agree to a point, can you tell me how it damages the US in any way shape or form?
The Russians currently pay Ukraine for pipeline rights of way into Europe.
Ukraine is a major agriculture exporter.
If Russia gets their hands on those two markets, they can manipulate the system in their favor weakening our position. They can also make Europe bend the knee while gobbling up democratic nations in the Baltics and elsewhere.
With their newfound power and money, Russia will strengthen their military forcing adversarial situations globally.
Russia will likely learn from their military mistakes in Ukraine making them evermore difficult to stop in future crises.
Stop em now before they get too powerful. Just like what we should have done to Germany from 1932-1939 before it cost 60M people their lives.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:55 am to Chromdome35
quote:You better get your butt back in here old man. That's what the the Pro Putin trolls are attempting to do .....Frustrate quality/ informative posters like you.
. I still am following the war closely, but what’s the point of posting about it here. I love TD, but it seriously needs some moderation.
I check this thread at least twice a day & there are some very damn good & informative posters. I think we have to self moderate & just not engage the few trolls. The only positive they bring is bumping a very popular thread that isn't stickied for some reason.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 10:59 am to lsu777
quote:
while i may agree to a point, can you tell me how it damages the US in any way shape or form?
I remember reading about a ruthless dictator who made demands, and who went into Austria unopposed and took it over. The same ruthless dictator made more demands and he was given parts of Czechoslovakia and took the rest unopposed. Then he made more demands and wanted parts of Poland. Western Europe said enough is enough and drew a line in the sand. The ruthless dictator smelling weakness cut a deal with Russia and invaded Poland anyway. War was declared, but the west dud nothing other than mobilize and make speeches.
Do you know what happened next?
Posted on 6/13/22 at 11:03 am to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
I'm assuming you may be a 777 pilot? You should be analytical if so
na engineer and i was just being contrarian to be contrarian
quote:
The Russians will not stop at Ukraine. They will hammer any bordering country they perceive a threat to whatever it is they are threatened by. There have never been a more paranoid, nationalistic and easy to manipulate people in the Russians. The dictator says that country bad, we need to attack and they do.
I agree, but i also know or atleast think russia is smart enough to not want the NATO, specifically the US smoke. Our everyday soldier might not be what it was 15 years ago, but our special forces and leadership when it comes to military action is off the charts and our tech is out of this world. I would hope they are smart enoguh to have learned this from ukraine.
also i dont think they are even close to capable enough to take all of ukraine. they have another 3 months minimum just to take the donbas. even more to take the southern half and thats if everything goes perfect.
quote:
They would like to destroy the influence of the US. So regardless of what is left of Ukraine in a year or so, this will not be over for the US now for a generation.
this i agree with somewhat. At some point ukraine has to stand on its own. We cant get into another conflict costing 75 billion a year for another decade. we can afford that.
quote:
But there will be a diversion in football season in September so there's that.
unfortunately i think the diversion will come sooner in the form of summer vacation season which is really over the next 8 weeks.
and frankly i understand it. if it wasnt for this board sparking my interest to continue to look into it, i would have forgotten about the conflict long ago. I have too much going on with kids and family and work to even think about wtf is going on a half a world away.
and although i do think most of the american public feels outrage at Russia, Im not sure that the normal everyday american isnt like me with being too busy managing their own life and worrying about inflation to even care about ukraine, much less be willign to donate billions to the country.
as i made in points on the last 2 pages, i do agree, in terms of foreign donations and support of other countries, this is money well spent, but only through the lense of foreign donations. Not sure if overall this will be money well spent when you look at the total cost to our economy.
i do 100% beleive though the economy was headed to recession under this admin, war or no war and this just sped the process up some.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 11:10 am to Tigeralum2008
quote:
The Russians currently pay Ukraine for pipeline rights of way into Europe.
Ukraine is a major agriculture exporter.
the russians have not even come close to showing they are capable of taking all of ukraine though. Hell they have another 3 months if everythign goes perfect just to take donbas and anotehr 3 to take the south, if things go perfectly. to take all of ukraine would take all of 2023 at best imo.
quote:
If Russia gets their hands on those two markets, they can manipulate the system in their favor weakening our position. They can also make Europe bend the knee while gobbling up democratic nations in the Baltics and elsewhere.
by the time they could even negotiate from that position, it will be from a position of weakness, cause the US would have changed admins by then and one that will be friendly to LNG exports to europe and europe would hae made their own changes by then.
quote:
They can also make Europe bend the knee while gobbling up democratic nations in the Baltics and elsewhere.
which baltic regions are you speaking of? because if they attack a nato country that is the end of russia as a soverign nation.
quote:
With their newfound power and money, Russia will strengthen their military forcing adversarial situations globally.
the sanctions are not getting lifted and even if they were, it would take a decade plus at best to recover to where they were. where is this money goign to come from?
quote:
Russia will likely learn from their military mistakes in Ukraine making them evermore difficult to stop in future crises.
no they wont. they have never shown the ability to do this. they fight the same way they always have
quote:
Stop em now before they get too powerful. Just like what we should have done to Germany from 1932-1939 before it cost 60M people their lives.
i agree with you, but russia will never be what germany was nor will they ever be powerful enough to win or come close to winning a match with nato. especially without nukes and if they use nukes, they may not just no longer exist as a country, they may fail to exist as a people also after the war is over.
just for the record, i do agree with the way things have been handled in ukraine. its the one thing i do feel the admin has done half arse right.
its too bad they can get shite else right.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 11:36 am to StormyMcMan
NATO is going to have to make a choice: Either supply Ukraine or accept that Russia will win.
It's fairly binary at this point.
It's fairly binary at this point.
Posted on 6/13/22 at 11:38 am to Chromdome35
quote:
NATO is going to have to make a choice: Either supply Ukraine or accept that Russia will win.
There’s nothing that Nato can do.
This post was edited on 6/13/22 at 11:39 am
Posted on 6/13/22 at 11:40 am to Lima Whiskey
There are lots of things NATO can do, almost all of which come with extreme risk to major escalation.
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