re: Israel–Hamas War Discussion Thread: News Links On First Page

Anyone mind giving me a quick “how-to” regarding searching for accounts to follow on telegraph? I know how to add groups if I’ve been give a link but can’t figure out how to search for groups.

Someone earlier recommended a guy to follow. Can’t remember the name….Amir something I think.

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And yes, Iran's fingerprints are all over it. They are the primary funder/supporter of Hamas. Hamas is nothing but a mechanism for Iran and others to fight a low-intensity proxy war against Israel.

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then they need to quit being pussies

It's like kicking in thr doors and wrecking shop on low level drug dealers when you know and have all the evidence who the supplier is that's just sitting back living large not giving a shite

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Ben Shapiro is showing quite a few videos on his show that I hadn’t seen.

Incomprehensible.

Palestine has to be wiped off the planet. An evil like that cannot be allowed to exist.

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This is a great example of how easy it is to control emotions and sway opinions.

Ben Shapiro showed some videos; now "Palestine is evil and needs to be wiped off the planet." FFS, man.

If you're referring to the "Palestinians", SOME are evil and THOSE Palestinians definitely need killing.

THOSE Palestinians are not the majority % of Palestinians. There is a spectrum of who is what and who needs what to happen to them.

SOME absolutely need killing.

Others are varying degrees of bad and certainly need an arse-kicking or other form of punishment.

Some don't need anything at all.

Making these broad genocidal statements is ridiculous. It's worse when it's based on an emotional response, driven by an external source.

When you allow others to manipulate you, they completely own you. As in you are a slave to them, a tool to be used.

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**It seems like a good idea to put a disclaimer up front since half the people on this board don't read, don't know shite anyway, and are quick to argue with parroted talking points. Hamas is bad and Israel is well within their rights to spank that arse. But positions on either side of the discussion should be built on actual facts and not " shite I've heard repeated and have regarded as truth." Otherwise, like many other debates, you may have the ultimate right answer, but it's undermined because your supporting details are garbage. The amount of upvotes this "truth that is actually false" received makes my point as well as anything else.*** This is actually not true. The average Pali (and average Israeli for that matter) just want to wake up in the morning and go about their day. The extremists are in the tails of the distribution. In this particular instance, yes, the tails are much fatter - but to say the average Pali thinks that way is false. Some are apathetic/apolitical. Some don't like the current state of affairs yet have no interest in action. They've just accepted things and want to get through their day. Some don't like the current state of affairs and have an appetite for non-violent action (bitching, moaning, and protests). Some don't like the current state of affairs and are okay with violent action, but won't do anything themselves. Some don't like the current state of affairs and are okay with violent action, willing to pick up a rock or gun themselves. Some don't like the current state of affairs and are okay with slaughtering innocents.

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Great post. Good universal rule of thumb: most people of every community everywhere are decent, normal folks who just want to live their lives. Yes, even the ones you think are an exception to this rule. It’s that some have a much larger % of extremists and/or a-holes than others.


You can 100% support Israel in this (as I do) but also feel great sympathy for all the everyday Palestinians whose lives are about to get fricked up. It’s easy sometimes to justify losing your sense of humanity, but it’s important not to.

It looked like all of the other Atlantic-based carriers were in port yesterday but I imagine whichever of the Pacific carriers that’s out at sea is crossing the Indian Ocean at the moment.

I’m not doing anything but asking you for sources.

I never even made an assertion with my data, which is funny considering you accused me of saying “every Palestinian supports this” while simultaneously saying I was building a strawman.

In 2021, 53% of Palestinians supported the terrorist organization Hamas

That’s it. That’s the post. No opinion or commentary around it. The fact you reacted in such a manner makes me wonder what your actual motives are with your posts.

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In 2021, 53% of Palestinians supported the terrorist organization Hamas

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Sounds like "their democracy" supports terrorism.

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For those wondering:

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There are several people in this thread who are half right. If they could get past their arguing, they might realize they can put their two halves together and get the *mostly* complete picture.


Here's a very simplified explanation of the situation (talking about the West Bank and ignoring Gaza since that's a separate situation):

There are 3 zones -

A Zone - 100% Palestinian, 100% controlled by the Palestinian Authority, both civil and security. It's illegal for Israeli citizens to go here. These areas are mostly the major cities inside the West Bank and their very immediate surroundings. Any official/overt security/military/IDF operations in the A Zones are formal operations, not just random incursions (I say "official" because the sneaky sneaky folks are in there all the time; they just don't admit it). PA security forces (something in between a military and a police force...the Israelis won't agree to them having an actual army) are confined *mostly* to the A Zone (although they'll be in the B Zones as well, just not with the same numbers).

B Zone - this is ALSO inside the West Bank and is SUPPOSED to belong to the Palestinians. Israeli "settlers" built settlements (villages of varying size and sophistication, mostly up high on defensible terrain) in these areas. Their behavior varies - some are openly hostile and some take a defensive posture. The Israelis use their presence as an excuse to control security in the B-Zones even though they are supposed to belong to the Palestinians. They don't do this with IDF forces, but rather with Border Patrol/Police. The Palestinian Authority controls some civil matters in the B Zones, but not security.

C Zone - 100% Israeli control, both security and civil. Consider this the "good parts" of the West Bank (water, farming, other resources). Basically, "the West Bank is yours, except we're going to keep this good stuff." Palestinians from the A and B Zones of the West Bank can only travel into the C Zone with permission (some do daily for business, etc....there are varying degrees of access).

"Green Line" Israel is the entirety of Israel NOT within the West Bank and/or Gaza. It's not necessarily all Jewish though. For example, Transjordan used to go all the way to East Jerusalem and they controlled the Old City. When they got pushed back across the Jordan River (during the war they started), most of that area became the "West Bank" (of the Jordan River...the WB as mostly on the EASTERN side of Israel). The Israelis kept East Jerusalem as part of Israel and gave those Arabs Israeli citizenship. East Jerusalem is formally Israel, but informally it's "the Arab side of town.: There are also a bunch of other areas inside the Green Line and C Zone that are Arab, but Israeli.

Disputes (in a nutshell):

The major disputes are over the B Zones, because they're supposed to belong to the Palestinians, but since Israeli "settlers" live in there, the Israelis control it with Border Patrol. This means that to go between the major West Bank population centers, the Palestinians have to leave the A Zone, move through the B Zone (and C if they have permission), and then reenter the next A Zone. The effect is that Israel controls all movement, meaning business/trade is quite difficult.

While they're in the B Zones, they're among a mix of Palestinians and Israeli "settlers", with mostly Israeli Border Patrol control. Lots of clashes happen between Palestinians and Israeli "settlers."

The Palestinians obviously want the C Zone as well since it's part of the West Bank, but that's mostly a non-starter since the Israelis own it 100%. (They're not giving up the Jordan River Valley, Dead Sea, or the resources.)

In actuality, the Palestinians want East Jerusalem too, and would take anything/everything else they can get as well - but that ain't happening. Thus, the real fight is mostly over the B Zones.

*Not all A and B Zones are the same. Some are completely benign and tame. Others are where all the shite goes down. For example, I'd let my family go from Jerusalem (Green Line) into Bethlehem or Jericho (both A Zones), but not into many of the B Zones and definitely not into the A Zones of Ramallah, Jenin, Nablus, or Hebron.

Disputes over East Jerusalem arise because even though those Arabs are Israeli citizens, that side of town is "theirs"...and the Jewish Israelis try to do the same thing there that they do in the B Zones - build "settlements" of Jews in the Arab areas. It's different than the B Zone situation because East Jerusalem is a part of Israel and everyone is an Israeli citizen, but it's the same dynamic - attempted control via occupation.

This just covers ONE facet of the overall situation and even this explanation is simplified. There's even more nuance to it than that. Unless you have lived, worked, and functioned there, you do not and will not understand it. It's something you have to LIVE to truly get. (<--- which I have and do)

Add in the bigger issues - terrorism, tactics, geopolitics, West Bank, Gaza, Israel vs. Hamas, Israel vs. PA, Hamas vs. PA, external funding/support for each of those entities, public opinion (often based on bad info), etc. - and you have an absolute fricking mess.

There is NO solution that will be amenable to both parties. Either the Israelis A) line up the D9s and push the Palestinians into the ocean, or B) they cede EVERYTHING to the Palestinians (Green Line Israel and all) and leave.

That's it. There is no two state solution. It's either A, B, or the status quo.

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Thank you for this explanation. My brother and his family missioned (Christian Missionary Trip) for almost 4 months several years ago. He tried to explain to me what you just did and it's just crazy how people co-exist. He said you have many good people on both sides but you keep your head on a swivel..... Thanks again!

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Burt Orangello

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Appreciate your perspective and contributions on this topic. I’m mostly ignorant to the nuances of this and have appreciated reading your posts.

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This is a great example of how easy it is to control emotions and sway opinions.

Ben Shapiro showed some videos; now "Palestine is evil and needs to be wiped off the planet." FFS, man.

If you're referring to the "Palestinians", SOME are evil and THOSE Palestinians definitely need killing.

THOSE Palestinians are not the majority % of Palestinians. There is a spectrum of who is what and who needs what to happen to them.

SOME absolutely need killing.

Others are varying degrees of bad and certainly need an arse-kicking or other form of punishment.

Some don't need anything at all.

Making these broad genocidal statements is ridiculous. It's worse when it's based on an emotional response, driven by an external source.

When you allow others to manipulate you, they completely own you. As in you are a slave to them, a tool to be used.

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Eventually the whole will face the consequences of the actions of the many.