re: Israel–Hamas War Discussion Thread: News Links On First Page

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More of your bullshite doom casting, does it get you hard or do you just like being miserable.

List these other currencies and show your work as to why they are stronger.

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LINK /

LINK /

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Was that used recently?

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I don't know exactly what they were referencing by bringing it up. Think the scene referenced something like exotic prettt girl to sway opinion yada yada.

Guessing the poster was saying that this looked like that type of spin or just one of those art imitating life events.

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As an insider do you believe this is the greatest miss by the IDF and Israeli intelligence or a potential blood letting by Netenyahu as a move to consolidate power?

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I wouldn't call myself an "insider." I just worked over there for a quite awhile and spent a lot of time "out and about" in indian country.

Israel's intelligence apparatus is pretty solid, but not infallible. A failure is plausible.

I'm not inside Netanyahu's mind, but I can make a general comment regarding the theory they let it happen for whatever reason.

The Israelis don't normally sacrifice their own for political reasons. They'll damn sure let some other countries' citizens die if it furthers political objectives, but Jewish Israelis allowing fellow Jewish Israelis living inside the homeland to be slaughtered in order to provide an excuse to consolidate power or hit Hamas hard is unlikely.

Not completely improbable, but unlikely.

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At least 9 Americans killed so far.

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Were those Americans there on vacation?

Just like the American government allowed 9/11 to happen to justify a war, there is zero chance the Israeli government didn't know this attack was coming. They let it happen to justify their final Hamas solution.

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The truth is the average Palestinian, from early childhood, is taught Jews are subhuman dogs and it’s their duty to dedicating their life to (1) destroy the state of Israel and (2) slaughter every Jewish man, woman, and child in Israel.

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**It seems like a good idea to put a disclaimer up front since half the people on this board don't read, don't know shite anyway, and are quick to argue with parroted talking points.

Hamas is bad and Israel is well within their rights to spank that arse. But positions on either side of the discussion should be built on actual facts and not "shite I've heard repeated and have regarded as truth." Otherwise, like many other debates, you may have the ultimate right answer, but it's undermined because your supporting details are garbage.

The amount of upvotes this "truth that is actually false" received makes my point as well as anything else.***


This is actually not true. The average Pali (and average Israeli for that matter) just want to wake up in the morning and go about their day.

The extremists are in the tails of the distribution. In this particular instance, yes, the tails are much fatter - but to say the average Pali thinks that way is false.

Some are apathetic/apolitical.

Some don't like the current state of affairs yet have no interest in action. They've just accepted things and want to get through their day.

Some don't like the current state of affairs and have an appetite for non-violent action (bitching, moaning, and protests).

Some don't like the current state of affairs and are okay with violent action, but won't do anything themselves.

Some don't like the current state of affairs and are okay with violent action, willing to pick up a rock or gun themselves.

Some don't like the current state of affairs and are okay with slaughtering innocents.

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Signs like there were seen all over the place in 2019 when I was there visiting friends who are missionaries there.

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That sign means nothing other than indicating entry into the A-zone, which means it's part of the West Bank that is under Pali civil/security control. Israelis may not go there because of Israeli law. It has nothing to do with anyone's feelings about anyone else.

Search my post history and read the post I made last week in another thread describing the layout of the West Bank and its zones.

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Search my post history and read the post I made last week in another thread describing the layout of the West Bank and its zones.

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For those wondering:

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There are several people in this thread who are half right. If they could get past their arguing, they might realize they can put their two halves together and get the *mostly* complete picture.


Here's a very simplified explanation of the situation (talking about the West Bank and ignoring Gaza since that's a separate situation):

There are 3 zones -

A Zone - 100% Palestinian, 100% controlled by the Palestinian Authority, both civil and security. It's illegal for Israeli citizens to go here. These areas are mostly the major cities inside the West Bank and their very immediate surroundings. Any official/overt security/military/IDF operations in the A Zones are formal operations, not just random incursions (I say "official" because the sneaky sneaky folks are in there all the time; they just don't admit it). PA security forces (something in between a military and a police force...the Israelis won't agree to them having an actual army) are confined *mostly* to the A Zone (although they'll be in the B Zones as well, just not with the same numbers).

B Zone - this is ALSO inside the West Bank and is SUPPOSED to belong to the Palestinians. Israeli "settlers" built settlements (villages of varying size and sophistication, mostly up high on defensible terrain) in these areas. Their behavior varies - some are openly hostile and some take a defensive posture. The Israelis use their presence as an excuse to control security in the B-Zones even though they are supposed to belong to the Palestinians. They don't do this with IDF forces, but rather with Border Patrol/Police. The Palestinian Authority controls some civil matters in the B Zones, but not security.

C Zone - 100% Israeli control, both security and civil. Consider this the "good parts" of the West Bank (water, farming, other resources). Basically, "the West Bank is yours, except we're going to keep this good stuff." Palestinians from the A and B Zones of the West Bank can only travel into the C Zone with permission (some do daily for business, etc....there are varying degrees of access).

"Green Line" Israel is the entirety of Israel NOT within the West Bank and/or Gaza. It's not necessarily all Jewish though. For example, Transjordan used to go all the way to East Jerusalem and they controlled the Old City. When they got pushed back across the Jordan River (during the war they started), most of that area became the "West Bank" (of the Jordan River...the WB as mostly on the EASTERN side of Israel). The Israelis kept East Jerusalem as part of Israel and gave those Arabs Israeli citizenship. East Jerusalem is formally Israel, but informally it's "the Arab side of town.: There are also a bunch of other areas inside the Green Line and C Zone that are Arab, but Israeli.

Disputes (in a nutshell):

The major disputes are over the B Zones, because they're supposed to belong to the Palestinians, but since Israeli "settlers" live in there, the Israelis control it with Border Patrol. This means that to go between the major West Bank population centers, the Palestinians have to leave the A Zone, move through the B Zone (and C if they have permission), and then reenter the next A Zone. The effect is that Israel controls all movement, meaning business/trade is quite difficult.

While they're in the B Zones, they're among a mix of Palestinians and Israeli "settlers", with mostly Israeli Border Patrol control. Lots of clashes happen between Palestinians and Israeli "settlers."

The Palestinians obviously want the C Zone as well since it's part of the West Bank, but that's mostly a non-starter since the Israelis own it 100%. (They're not giving up the Jordan River Valley, Dead Sea, or the resources.)

In actuality, the Palestinians want East Jerusalem too, and would take anything/everything else they can get as well - but that ain't happening. Thus, the real fight is mostly over the B Zones.

*Not all A and B Zones are the same. Some are completely benign and tame. Others are where all the shite goes down. For example, I'd let my family go from Jerusalem (Green Line) into Bethlehem or Jericho (both A Zones), but not into many of the B Zones and definitely not into the A Zones of Ramallah, Jenin, Nablus, or Hebron.

Disputes over East Jerusalem arise because even though those Arabs are Israeli citizens, that side of town is "theirs"...and the Jewish Israelis try to do the same thing there that they do in the B Zones - build "settlements" of Jews in the Arab areas. It's different than the B Zone situation because East Jerusalem is a part of Israel and everyone is an Israeli citizen, but it's the same dynamic - attempted control via occupation.

This just covers ONE facet of the overall situation and even this explanation is simplified. There's even more nuance to it than that. Unless you have lived, worked, and functioned there, you do not and will not understand it. It's something you have to LIVE to truly get. (<--- which I have and do)

Add in the bigger issues - terrorism, tactics, geopolitics, West Bank, Gaza, Israel vs. Hamas, Israel vs. PA, Hamas vs. PA, external funding/support for each of those entities, public opinion (often based on bad info), etc. - and you have an absolute fricking mess.

There is NO solution that will be amenable to both parties. Either the Israelis A) line up the D9s and push the Palestinians into the ocean, or B) they cede EVERYTHING to the Palestinians (Green Line Israel and all) and leave.

That's it. There is no two state solution. It's either A, B, or the status quo.

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Do you have any evidence to support your claim that hamas doesn’t enjoy support from Palestinians besides “trust me bro”?