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re: How Would You Handle? Employee spends too much on company card. But is top producer...

Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:53 am to
Posted by VABuckeye
Naples, FL
Member since Dec 2007
35523 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:53 am to
IRS per diem guidelines. The OP is already being more than generous with his per diem.

ETA: Not sure if this is continental US as I believe ILB lives in Colombia.

quote:

Per diem rates for the continental U.S. are set each year by the General Services Administration (GSA). For fiscal year 2022 (which begins October 1, 2021), the standard rate is $59 for meals and incidentals and $96 for lodging. The GSA also sets rates for over 319 specific destinations where the cost of living tends to be higher than average.
Posted by OysterPoBoy
City of St. George
Member since Jul 2013
35085 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:54 am to
I was scared this was about me until you said top producer.
Posted by V Bainbridge
Member since Jul 2020
7795 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:56 am to
Talk to him. If you don't say anything he will continue to increase his spending to see what he can get away with.
Posted by Doublebagger
Member since Mar 2021
960 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:56 am to
I wish I had this problem.

I guess you call this rich people problems.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 9:15 am
Posted by MusclesofBrussels
Member since Dec 2015
4461 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 8:57 am to
quote:

I would be raining hail fire


Posted by Dire Wolf
bawcomville
Member since Sep 2008
36609 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:00 am to
quote:


Is this an ego thing on my end and I should leave this alone or should I talk to him?



sales guy here that has had good bosses and horrible bosses.

my good managers would just pull me aside, yada yada about having another good month then tell me to reel in my bar tabs on the company card. Not make a big deal about it but put it out there. "skip the app next time" kind of thing

My bad managers would either talk shite behind my back to other sales reps or in a monthly meeting bring it up to embarrass me. "we have some sales reps that think they can spend $250 a night at the steakhouse" kind of thing.
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 9:02 am
Posted by chinhoyang
Member since Jun 2011
23378 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:01 am to
quote:

Was he taking a client out for dinner? Is he gonna close a big deal worth way more than a couple hundred bucks? Rules are there to limit the losses of losers. Winners bend them to win the game.


[quote]"Hey man, I don't mind you treating yourself every now and then since you have earned it, but try to keep most of the meals within the per diem limit."

These are the two best responses.

Posted by Westbank111
Armpit of America
Member since Sep 2013
1914 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:06 am to
Raise his per diem accordingly to his production, and make a point of it being based on his production and success.

But at the same time, stress the importance of staying within the systems parameters for spending.

Rewarding him with the fruits he has harvested, but also making him abide the company policy.

Production should be awarded, or else he will be unhappy, feeling unappreciated & always looking for better opportunities.

Increase his perks & budget according to his production, easy fix.
Posted by LaLadyinTx
Cypress, TX
Member since Nov 2018
6016 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:08 am to
quote:

If he didn’t have a client with him then anything over the per diem should come out of his pocket…it’s that simple.


Exactly. Whoever processes your expense reports should only pay the limit. Tell him this is in place starting immediately. Over the $125 is paid with receipts and explanation/attendees. This is common practice at large companies. The rules shouldn't be subjective. If you'd been enforcing your rules all along, you wouldn't have this problem.
Posted by The Eric
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2008
20984 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:10 am to
Bring him in and thank him for his hard work. Explain to him that because he is your #1 guy, You want to up his daily per dime, but remind him it needs to be for legitimate business expenses in order to insure that it isn’t credited to him as income.
Posted by 777Tiger
Member since Mar 2011
73856 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:10 am to
quote:

quote]"Hey man, I don't mind you treating yourself every now and then since you have earned it, but try to keep most of the meals within the per diem limit."

These are the two best responses.



my response would probably depend on the revenue the guy was bringing in, I have a friend that was a neighbor of mine in FL, entrepreneur, has a global business that has done very well, he has three salesmen that he pays more than he pays himself because the revenues they bring to the company are so huge, obviously they have more latitude when it comes to expense accounts than a lower level employee doing more mundane tasks
Posted by VABuckeye
Naples, FL
Member since Dec 2007
35523 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:11 am to
Agreed. As the owner of an LLC treated as an S Corp any expenses that aren't allowable count against me at tax time. So, now I am personally paying taxes on any amount this guy spends over the IRS guidelines.
Posted by cbree88
South Louisiana
Member since Feb 2010
5317 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:11 am to
Make a concession to him like paying for one hooker per week with the company card. Other than that, he needs to start following company policy. Perhaps this negotiation will keep both morale high and costs relatively low.
Posted by Masterag
'Round Dallas
Member since Sep 2014
18799 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:11 am to
tell him this, "I noticed you have been spending more than the allotted. since you're my top guy, i've allowed it and haven't said anything. But, i can't allow rules to continue to go unfollowed, so i'll make you a deal. if you only spend more when entertaining clients i will allow it without question so long as you keep producing. if this is you thinking you deserve more, i'll allow you an extra $100/day as long as you keep producing.
Posted by Bmath
LA
Member since Aug 2010
18668 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:11 am to
This is really a question for your CPA, but this is my 2 cents as a manager of a small business.

If the excess spending isn't impacting your bottom line, then you only expense out the per diem amount. Anything over is a bonus that he should pay income tax on. If you feel that he's spending far more than what should be a "bonus" you have a conversation with him and let him know that you'll need to deduct overages from his salary as personal expenses. Perhaps a lavish meal or two with clients can be justified, but there needs to be consent from you first.

Regardless, you need to have a friendly conversation. Perhaps he believes this high dollar meals are beneficial to the business. If the ends don't justify the means, then you nip that in the bud. After-all, it's business.

Something else to consider is that per diem rates and reimbursement policies can be abused both ways. In graduate school I floated nearly $1,000 a personal card for a work trip that took months for the accounting group to pick apart and settle. Just like a mileage reimbursement for use of a personal vehicle. Does 58 cents a mile really help a person recover fuel and major repairs/depreciation?
Posted by jmorr34
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2004
2880 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:14 am to
Is this a one time occurrence or repeat offense?

If one time, I wouldn't say anything about it. Hell one time my wife took my damn personal card out of my wallet and I had to use my company card for a personal expense. I reimbursed the company though.

If repeat offense, definitely bring it up.

Also, you checking card usage daily or something? You mentioned it was just last night.
Posted by Obtuse1
Westside Bodymore Yo
Member since Sep 2016
25617 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:14 am to
I am very wary of employees that openly break rules especially when it pertains to money. What rules are they/will they break when they think no one will notice. He is obviously paying himself what he thinks he is worth. If he is worth more pay him more via bonus, increased commission, spiffs whatever but if you let him pay himself there will come a point where he pays himself in other ways if he isn't already.
Posted by Hook Em Horns
350000 posts
Member since Sep 2010
15087 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:15 am to
125 per diem? Uh where do you work? I need a job with you sir.
Posted by SammyTiger
Baton Rouge, LA
Member since Feb 2009
66456 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:15 am to
I assume As a salesman he’s on some kind of commission?

If so, he is fairly compensated for being the rock star earner he is. Tell everyone that going over the per dime will be automatically docked from their paycheck.

He probably isn’t walking from a good commission for 125 at dinner
Posted by The Torch
DFW The Dub
Member since Aug 2014
19266 posts
Posted on 6/28/22 at 9:16 am to
quote:

How Would You Handle? Employee spends too much on company card. But is top producer..


We sent our top five sales guys on a canned deer hunt years ago, one of them shot the "wrong" deer and it costs the company $28,000.00

It was some special breeder buck that was off limits

My boss had smoke coming out of his ears for a few months but since it was a top producer he ate the costs
This post was edited on 6/28/22 at 9:16 am
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