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Message
re: How much natural habitat will be wiped out by Ford’s new EV plants in KY and TN?
Posted on 9/29/21 at 11:51 am to weagle99
Posted on 9/29/21 at 11:51 am to weagle99
quote:It is significant, yes, but we need to understand that this is consumption/production and not capacity. Presently, the demand for electricity can vary by 50% or more over the course of a single day, and also by 50% or more across seasons. So the grid is designed with the capacity to serve the most demanding part of the most demanding day of the most demanding season. Occasionally it's not adequate and we get black/brownouts. Aside from that, for most of the day and year there is ample unused capacity available to charge EVs. And on top of that, backfeeding chargers could potentially eliminate black/brownouts with current infrastructure. The most demanding time of day is when everyone gets home from work and starts flipping on lights, cranking the AC, cooking, etc. With typical driving habits, your EV will have plenty of charge when you get home and it can power all of your afternoon/evening consumption instead of drawing from the grid. Then it will start charging again after you go to bed.
25% is a huge number when you are talking about total consumption.
0
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:02 pm to weagle99
quote:Why are we only questioning this for EV plants? I don't think I've ever seen a post questioning how much natural habitat will be wiped out due to adding a plant for regular cars?
- environmental impact of new EV plants
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:02 pm to SportsGuyNOLA
quote:
EV cars should be banned in O&G states
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:05 pm to SportsGuyNOLA
quote:
EV cars should be banned in O&G states
hard pass. don’t be like them, be better than them.
it should be a free market across the board, no government overreach period.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:06 pm to shel311
quote:
Why are we only questioning this for EV plants? I don't think I've ever seen a post questioning how much natural habitat will be wiped out due to adding a plant for regular cars?
You can't be this obtuse.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:07 pm to shel311
quote:I love how he skipped right past all the faux environmental concerns and went straight to the real reason for the opposition to EVs.quote:
EV cars should be banned in O&G states
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:07 pm to weagle99
quote:
- Environmental impact of all the new electric generation required (especially wind and solar)
This is an overblown talking point. The benefits of a few GW of interconnected storage far exceeds the adverse impact of adding more generation. If we, as a society do this right, we could easily end up with a grid that almost never fails. I’m pretty sure we’ll frick it up though because people are stupid and selfish.
This post was edited on 9/29/21 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:07 pm to weagle99
Look at the new or upcoming offerings from any manufacturers. All the new stuff is electric only. ICE only vehicle development is stagnant.
All the pain points of electric ownership will be addressed over time. O&G will still be needed to fire the plants. Pollution doesn’t go away, but we will be able to concentrate in less dense areas. We don’t throw our garbage on the streets. We consolidate it away from people.
The vehicles are becoming less dorky too. The new Lightning is putting up Mustang numbers. The Explorer EV will be indistinguishable from the ICE version. The Audi Q4 looks just like a Q5.
All the pain points of electric ownership will be addressed over time. O&G will still be needed to fire the plants. Pollution doesn’t go away, but we will be able to concentrate in less dense areas. We don’t throw our garbage on the streets. We consolidate it away from people.
The vehicles are becoming less dorky too. The new Lightning is putting up Mustang numbers. The Explorer EV will be indistinguishable from the ICE version. The Audi Q4 looks just like a Q5.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:08 pm to weagle99
quote:
environmental impact of mining for all these new batteries
Not in our backyard thanks to the USEPA
quote:
carbon footprint of all the raw materials for the new plants
carbon footprint of all the new materials needed to upgrade the power grid
Carbon credits. Apparently if you pay the government or some NGO money your carbon doesn’t count.
quote:
Environmental impact of all the new electric generation required (especially wind and solar)
Wind and solar baw. Don’t question it.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:08 pm to SuperSaint
quote:
Do we support mining jobs or not on the OT? I can’t remember where we stand today
I’d rather not support Chinese mining jobs.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:12 pm to Korkstand
it’s a silly notion no doubt, but regardless big O&G isn’t going away anytime soon. not within our lifetimes. so for someone to be insecure about EVs on that basis, meh.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:12 pm to weagle99
Weirdest melt ever
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:19 pm to MightyYat
quote:Elaborate
You can't be this obtuse.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:25 pm to shel311
quote:
Elaborate
Electric vehicles are being produced in the interest of saving the environment, correct?
Posters might ask what will happen to the environment where the EV plant is going because they want to know if destruction of the immediate surrounding environment outweighs the total benefit to the environment of the EV's produced there.
They won't ask the same for gas car production facilities, because gas car proponents aren't acting like it is better for the environment.
I have no idea what the answer is, but you really couldn't figure that out?
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:27 pm to shel311
quote:
Elaborate
You understand that the regular car plant owner wasn't taking a stance on being environmentally friendly, right?
I don't give a shite either way but I do see the humor in EV plants using gasoline powered equipment and material made/delivered by gas powered equipment to build a product intended to be better for the environment.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:28 pm to billjamin
quote:
The benefits of a few GW of interconnected storage far exceeds the adverse impact of adding more generation. If
Have you read up on how these wind farms just slaughter birds?
How much land do you think we have to cover with solar panels to make a dent in demand? A multi-acre farm barely generates enough electricity for one Walmart.
Bonus question: What is happening to the temperature on Earth when we use solar panels to trap energy that would normally be reflected back into space?
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:29 pm to jchamil
quote:
Electric vehicles are being produced in the interest of saving the environment, correct?
Politicians and greenies are the only one who won’t shut up about how EVs are such an environmental win. Realistically, there are a ton of reasons and use cases where EVs are far superior to ICE that have nothing to do with environmentalism.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:30 pm to jchamil
quote:It should be about the net effect, and it's been studied to death and EVs are better for the environment than gas powered vehicles as a whole.
Electric vehicles are being produced in the interest of saving the environment, correct?
Posters might ask what will happen to the environment where the EV plant is going because they want to know if destruction of the immediate surrounding environment outweighs the total benefit to the environment of the EV's produced there.
They won't ask the same for gas car production facilities, because gas car proponents aren't acting like it is better for the environment.
I have no idea what the answer is, but you really couldn't figure that out?
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:35 pm to weagle99
quote:
Have you read up on how these wind farms just slaughter birds? How much land do you think we have to cover with solar panels to make a dent in demand? A multi-acre farm barely generates enough electricity for one Walmart. Bonus question: What is happening to the temperature on Earth when we use solar panels to trap energy that would normally be reflected back into space?
Slaughter birds? Lol I’ve spent thousands of hours on wind farms and have literally never seen a bird strike. Do they happen, yes. Is it a blown out of proportion talking point, also yes.
A lot. Anyone saying we should go all solar is retarded. But to your point, yes solar is land use intensive. I dedicated about 1/4 acre to build a system big enough to power 2 houses and a barn.
And I have the solar heat retention modeling, it’s also a blown out of proportion talking point. I know this because I have about 100 IE reports with environmental studies from DNV, Leidos, B&V, etc.
Posted on 9/29/21 at 12:40 pm to weagle99
quote:
That is great news if the tech becomes used around the world.
It has been. Brine mining has been the preferred method over hard rock mining for several years now. It isn't just an environmental issue either brining is more efficient and has shorter lead times than hard rock mining.
The environmental impact talking points tend to be 5 or more years behind that actual technology. Issues like lithium mining, recycling and conflict minerals are constantly being rectified. People tend to ignore O&G recovery is a mature industry with many decades of work to reduce environmental impact.
Manufacturing is not perfectly clean now for any goods and likely won't be for a long time if ever but when you are moving to a lower net negative process it is always a good thing re the environment.
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