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re: How can one abuse "Unlimited PTO"?
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:36 am to WhiskeyThrottle
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:36 am to WhiskeyThrottle
Take care of your shite. Then you can do as you please.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:36 am to WhiskeyThrottle
one week off per month seems about right.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:37 am to WhiskeyThrottle
quote:
They didn't explain what "abuse" was.
Taking leave without notifying your superiors, those who report to and any other important internal or external stakeholder to ensure that the business model remains in tact.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:38 am to JimTiger72
quote:
No. In fact, I wouldn’t even consider taking 7-8 weeks/year as abusing it.
Me either. 6 weeks a year for those not on unlimited is not rare at all for executive positions. I had unlimited I would expect 8+ weeks a year but would certainly make sure my boss is on the same page.
An unlimited policy under a boss who expects I take less than 6 is worthless.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:43 am to WhiskeyThrottle
We have a 71 year old employee that abuses his 20 days of PTO per year. Every year. He's slick about it. Takes off an afternoon or leaves early here and there throughout the year. Takes one vacation per year. But the rest is doctor appts, dentist appointments, funerals, various personal business items that "require" him to leave at 2PM randomly.
Mgt is too scared of confronting him about it bec of his age. If it was all added up, he for sure is taking off a total of 30+ days per year. Possibly reaching 40.
Mgt is too scared of confronting him about it bec of his age. If it was all added up, he for sure is taking off a total of 30+ days per year. Possibly reaching 40.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:43 am to WhiskeyThrottle
Sounds like an awful work envirnoment.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:44 am to Colonel Angus
quote:
Mgt is too scared to change the policy
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:46 am to WhiskeyThrottle
Buddy of mine works in tech, unlimited PTO is pretty much the norm in that industry.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:46 am to Colonel Angus
quote:
But the rest is doctor appts, dentist appointments, funerals, various personal business items that "require" him to leave at 2PM randomly.
sounds like every senior enlisted Marine i've ever known.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:48 am to chryso
i would continue to do a good job, not leave during pivotal or crunch times in your specialty/area, and increase my weeks off by 2.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:49 am to WhiskeyThrottle
My last job had unlimited PTO and I will never again do that shite. Basically you never got to unplug. You could take all the vacation you wanted, but you were expected to answer emails and take client calls.
I remember waking up on my honeymoon super early while my wife was still asleep and catching up on emails. It was such bullshite in hindsight.
If anyone reading this is ever presented with the opportunity to have "unlimited PTO" -- don't do it. Run.
I remember waking up on my honeymoon super early while my wife was still asleep and catching up on emails. It was such bullshite in hindsight.
If anyone reading this is ever presented with the opportunity to have "unlimited PTO" -- don't do it. Run.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:51 am to WhiskeyThrottle
It’s most definitely for the benefit of employers under a very employee friendly-sounding name.
Along with other benefits (for the employers) it ends stepped/tenured PTO. I was getting 5 weeks automatic at my previous employer after being there 16 years. Plus usually a week rollover. All that vanished when they went to “unlimited.”
Along with other benefits (for the employers) it ends stepped/tenured PTO. I was getting 5 weeks automatic at my previous employer after being there 16 years. Plus usually a week rollover. All that vanished when they went to “unlimited.”
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:51 am to MontyFranklyn
quote:It's intentionally vague
They definitely need to define "abuse" in this situation. They are absolutely trying use this to fire people and bait them
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:54 am to Colonel Angus
quote:I’m missing something. How is he abusing hisPTO? Is he exceeding his number of days? Or just spreading them out?
We have a 71 year old employee that abuses his 20 days of PTO per year. Every year. He's slick about it. Takes off an afternoon or leaves early here and there throughout the year. Takes one vacation per year. But the rest is doctor appts, dentist appointments, funerals, various personal business items that "require" him to leave at 2PM randomly.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:55 am to Quatrepot
He gets 20 days per year. Not unlimited
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:05 am to WhiskeyThrottle
It's not hard to figure out...if you can still meet your objectives of your role and able to assist when needed
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:09 am to WhiskeyThrottle
quote:
This is our first year having "unlimited PTO". The caveat is "if you abuse it, you're subject to disciplinary action".
Standard work year is 2080 hours. I would say going below 90% of that (208 hours, or 5.2 5-day work weeks) would be cause for management to take notice, going below 85% (312 hours, or 7.8 5-day work weeks) would be getting into the abusive territory. The further below 85%, the more abusive.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:14 am to h0bnail
quote:
This sounds like a good way to make employees feel too guilty to use PTO.
That's exactly what this is. Tech companies started doing this and found that people actually took less PTO because they were afraid of being seen as abusing it. Another added benefit is that of you leave or get terminated, they don't have to pay you shite.
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:16 am to WhiskeyThrottle
Guessing I'll be in the minority on this, but we switched to unlimited PTO a couple of years ago and it's way better. The PTO that I had accrued up to that point was frozen and will be paid out if I leave. I used to hoard all of my PTO til the end of the year in case I needed it for when I got sick or the kids had to stay home from school or something. Then I'd try to take basically all of December off and end up working through it anyway because there was too much crap to do.
Now, if I need to a day or three to decompress or do something unexpected, I take it and I don't have to care. We have a similarly vague "don't abuse it" rule. My team has pretty black and white performance targets (utilization for consultants), so abuse to me would be not carrying your weight on the team and hitting your targets. That also assumes the time off is being used to goof off and not because of some serious family stuff or for an otherwise "good" reason. At that point, you're not doing your job, which is something I'll fire people for regardless of whether PTO is involved.
ETA: The reason my definition of abuse is vague is because I expect people to be adults and do their job. I don't want to have to make a bunch of rules because you're too stupid to read the room. I pay people way too much to be that braindead.
Now, if I need to a day or three to decompress or do something unexpected, I take it and I don't have to care. We have a similarly vague "don't abuse it" rule. My team has pretty black and white performance targets (utilization for consultants), so abuse to me would be not carrying your weight on the team and hitting your targets. That also assumes the time off is being used to goof off and not because of some serious family stuff or for an otherwise "good" reason. At that point, you're not doing your job, which is something I'll fire people for regardless of whether PTO is involved.
ETA: The reason my definition of abuse is vague is because I expect people to be adults and do their job. I don't want to have to make a bunch of rules because you're too stupid to read the room. I pay people way too much to be that braindead.
This post was edited on 8/7/23 at 11:18 am
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