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re: How can one abuse "Unlimited PTO"?

Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:36 am to
Posted by kciDAtaE
Member since Apr 2017
15811 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:36 am to
Take care of your shite. Then you can do as you please.
Posted by greenbean
USAF Retired
Member since Feb 2019
4640 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:36 am to
one week off per month seems about right.
Posted by LSUfan4444
Member since Mar 2004
53937 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:37 am to
quote:

They didn't explain what "abuse" was.


Taking leave without notifying your superiors, those who report to and any other important internal or external stakeholder to ensure that the business model remains in tact.
Posted by LSUfan4444
Member since Mar 2004
53937 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:38 am to
quote:

No. In fact, I wouldn’t even consider taking 7-8 weeks/year as abusing it.


Me either. 6 weeks a year for those not on unlimited is not rare at all for executive positions. I had unlimited I would expect 8+ weeks a year but would certainly make sure my boss is on the same page.

An unlimited policy under a boss who expects I take less than 6 is worthless.
Posted by Colonel Angus
Member since Aug 2007
1629 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:43 am to
We have a 71 year old employee that abuses his 20 days of PTO per year. Every year. He's slick about it. Takes off an afternoon or leaves early here and there throughout the year. Takes one vacation per year. But the rest is doctor appts, dentist appointments, funerals, various personal business items that "require" him to leave at 2PM randomly.

Mgt is too scared of confronting him about it bec of his age. If it was all added up, he for sure is taking off a total of 30+ days per year. Possibly reaching 40.
Posted by phunkatron
Member since Jun 2019
1444 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:43 am to
Sounds like an awful work envirnoment.
Posted by LSUfan4444
Member since Mar 2004
53937 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:44 am to
quote:

Mgt is too scared to change the policy
Posted by lowspark12
nashville, tn
Member since Aug 2009
22371 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:46 am to
Buddy of mine works in tech, unlimited PTO is pretty much the norm in that industry.
Posted by Northshore Aggie
Mandeville, LA
Member since Sep 2022
4761 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:46 am to
quote:

But the rest is doctor appts, dentist appointments, funerals, various personal business items that "require" him to leave at 2PM randomly.

sounds like every senior enlisted Marine i've ever known.
Posted by i10Duck
mobile
Member since Nov 2008
1552 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:48 am to
i would continue to do a good job, not leave during pivotal or crunch times in your specialty/area, and increase my weeks off by 2.
Posted by FearTheFish
Member since Dec 2007
3763 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:49 am to
My last job had unlimited PTO and I will never again do that shite. Basically you never got to unplug. You could take all the vacation you wanted, but you were expected to answer emails and take client calls.

I remember waking up on my honeymoon super early while my wife was still asleep and catching up on emails. It was such bullshite in hindsight.

If anyone reading this is ever presented with the opportunity to have "unlimited PTO" -- don't do it. Run.
Posted by TejasHorn
High Plains Driftin'
Member since Mar 2007
10977 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:51 am to
It’s most definitely for the benefit of employers under a very employee friendly-sounding name.

Along with other benefits (for the employers) it ends stepped/tenured PTO. I was getting 5 weeks automatic at my previous employer after being there 16 years. Plus usually a week rollover. All that vanished when they went to “unlimited.”
Posted by castorinho
13623 posts
Member since Nov 2010
82052 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:51 am to
quote:

They definitely need to define "abuse" in this situation. They are absolutely trying use this to fire people and bait them
It's intentionally vague
Posted by Quatrepot
Member since Jun 2023
4061 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:54 am to
quote:

We have a 71 year old employee that abuses his 20 days of PTO per year. Every year. He's slick about it. Takes off an afternoon or leaves early here and there throughout the year. Takes one vacation per year. But the rest is doctor appts, dentist appointments, funerals, various personal business items that "require" him to leave at 2PM randomly.
I’m missing something. How is he abusing hisPTO? Is he exceeding his number of days? Or just spreading them out?
Posted by TigerCoon
Member since Nov 2005
18882 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:55 am to
Bingo
Posted by Colonel Angus
Member since Aug 2007
1629 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 10:55 am to
He gets 20 days per year. Not unlimited
Posted by sidewalkside
rent free in yo head
Member since Sep 2021
1680 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:05 am to
It's not hard to figure out...if you can still meet your objectives of your role and able to assist when needed
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
51778 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:09 am to
quote:

This is our first year having "unlimited PTO". The caveat is "if you abuse it, you're subject to disciplinary action".


Standard work year is 2080 hours. I would say going below 90% of that (208 hours, or 5.2 5-day work weeks) would be cause for management to take notice, going below 85% (312 hours, or 7.8 5-day work weeks) would be getting into the abusive territory. The further below 85%, the more abusive.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134874 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:14 am to
quote:

This sounds like a good way to make employees feel too guilty to use PTO.

That's exactly what this is. Tech companies started doing this and found that people actually took less PTO because they were afraid of being seen as abusing it. Another added benefit is that of you leave or get terminated, they don't have to pay you shite.
Posted by c0rndogs
Member since Nov 2019
70 posts
Posted on 8/7/23 at 11:16 am to
Guessing I'll be in the minority on this, but we switched to unlimited PTO a couple of years ago and it's way better. The PTO that I had accrued up to that point was frozen and will be paid out if I leave. I used to hoard all of my PTO til the end of the year in case I needed it for when I got sick or the kids had to stay home from school or something. Then I'd try to take basically all of December off and end up working through it anyway because there was too much crap to do.

Now, if I need to a day or three to decompress or do something unexpected, I take it and I don't have to care. We have a similarly vague "don't abuse it" rule. My team has pretty black and white performance targets (utilization for consultants), so abuse to me would be not carrying your weight on the team and hitting your targets. That also assumes the time off is being used to goof off and not because of some serious family stuff or for an otherwise "good" reason. At that point, you're not doing your job, which is something I'll fire people for regardless of whether PTO is involved.

ETA: The reason my definition of abuse is vague is because I expect people to be adults and do their job. I don't want to have to make a bunch of rules because you're too stupid to read the room. I pay people way too much to be that braindead.
This post was edited on 8/7/23 at 11:18 am
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