re: history question for the OT: what was so bad about Rhodesia?

quote:

---

So, while it is sad to see a white farmer lose a productive farm in this part of the world, its helpful to remember that his forebears likely took the property by force from the indigenous people in the 1890s and afterwards.

---

True. Thankfully the people they took it from had been there since time began and definitely hadn't taken it from someone else, who had taken it from someone else, who had taken it from someone else.

quote:

---

So, while it is sad to see a white farmer lose a productive farm in this part of the world, its helpful to remember that his forebears likely took the property by force from the indigenous people in the 1890s and afterwards.

---

That's kind of how the world has worked for centuries.

What are your feelings about when a black tribe drove out another black tribe and claimed the land? Was that theft?

How about when the Comanche or Sioux conquered other American Indian lands and took slaves? Was that different?

quote:

---

So you needed to own land in order to vote?

you also had to be Male and be able to write your own address and occupation.

---

Extraordinarily based

This would fix 95% of the problems in the US.

quote:

---

With a massive assist from Andrew Young and Jimmy Carter

---

Makes sense since he was a colossal failure in office

quote:

---

True. Thankfully the people they took it from had been there since time began and definitely hadn't taken it from someone else, who had taken it from someone else, who had taken it from someone else.

---

This is something people tend to forget; every civilization is built on the bones of the previous civilization.

Botswana is far from perfect but it's generally peaceful and the economy generally works.

quote:

---

Botswana is far from perfect but it's generally peaceful and the economy generally works.

---

Seretse Khama was a brilliant and wise leader, who largely avoided the pitfalls of his neighbors. He laid a foundation of which Botswanans are proud to continue.

As for the Rhodesia discussion, none of this is ancient history. Ian Smith has written copious memoirs about what took place. You can also find interviews with him about what the Rhodesian franchise looked like. He was very honest- you cannot take the Western concept of voting and franchise and apply it to everyone, including Stone age peoples. It's not possible. Blacks were able to vote under Rhodesian rule, but they did have to have literacy, land, and skin in the game. A lot of blacks fought with the Rhodesians against the communists that the US actively financed and encouraged.

Smith is a tragic figure in his own right. He issues the UDI, patterned after the Declaration of Independence. Instead of any kind of assistance from his ideological cousins in Washington, he was sold out and ostracized. Still, he had a thriving independent nation even in the midst of a guerrilla war.

quote:

---

then why the frick didn’t the us and Britain help Rhodesia and South Africa out against the commies?

---

Not only did the US and RSA not help Rhodesia, they sold them out.

When rhodesia wanted to break free of England and declared their UDI England, the US, RSA, UN, etc. denounced it and did not recognize it.

The Rhodesian PM, Ian Smith, was ready to issue voting rights not based on race, but on if you paid taxes (over 1 million blacks did) with his one taxpayer, on vote system.

Kissinger went to the RSA government and said either you start embargoing Rhodesia or we’re going to do the same to you.