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re: History Channel's 'Grant' Is a Timely Reminder of Which General Actually Won the Civil War

Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:27 pm to
Posted by windshieldman
Member since Nov 2012
12818 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:27 pm to
quote:

Inb4 drunk, just sacrificed his men to overwhelm Lee, not as good of a general as Lee, etc.


The issue with Grant was his hatred towards blacks
Posted by Drew Brews
SG·LA
Member since Feb 2018
1958 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:35 pm to
quote:

so it's easy to forget that he commanded the losing side in the Civil War


Might be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read
Posted by Rep520
Member since Mar 2018
10476 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:39 pm to
quote:

Robert E. Lee may have been the star pupil at West Point and currently the most-celebrated military man of his era, so it's easy to forget that he commanded the losing side in the Civil War. 


I don't think it really is. I feel like you either don't know who Lee is or know he was a Confederate General.

So, unless you're confused about how the Civil War turned out, it's pretty straightforward.
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
46761 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:41 pm to
quote:

Inb4 drunk


But he was.

quote:

just sacrificed his men to overwhelm Lee


Maybe, but that doesn't take away from the fact he still won. War is hell, and you do what you need to do to win.

quote:

not as good of a general as Lee,


Lee was a better General when it came to tactics and strategy...by quite a bit. But Grant didn't need to be a better General to win. He just needed to leverage the logistical advantage the Union had over the Confederacy, which he did.

This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 3:44 pm
Posted by Boring
Member since Feb 2019
3792 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:42 pm to
At this point, what difference does it make?

Some people did something over 150 years ago, so who cares. Just get over it and let it go, gosh!
Posted by ForLSU56
Rapides Parish
Member since Feb 2015
5582 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:53 pm to
quote:

Which General Actually Won the War of Northern Aggression


FIFY
Posted by banone74
Member since Oct 2006
1214 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:54 pm to
Wasn’t the South going to lose regardless of who its top general was? I was under the impression that the North had all the industry and was only a matter of time before the South was completely shut off and out of supplies. Disclaimer here, I’m by no means well versed on the topic, just what I remember reading somewhere.

Edit: certainly don’t mean to discredit Grant, looking forward to this documentary
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 4:11 pm
Posted by ZappBrannigan
Member since Jun 2015
7692 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:54 pm to
Well not just the logistical advantage but the follow through.

Lee should have been defeated many times but was allowed to retreat time and time again. The civil war in the East is sometimes almost like a perverse inversion of the Fabian Strategy.

It took men like Grant to put and end to that.
Posted by pensacola
pensacola
Member since Sep 2005
4833 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:06 pm to
Grant was a mathematician who knew how to feed the meat grinder.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
43088 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:13 pm to
quote:


Lee was outmatched.

After Gettysburg Lee had no chance. Grant never got Lee at his best. Meade had already beaten a weakened Lee(no Jackson or Stuart) and all Grant had to do was finish him off. Frankly I wonder why it took Grant so long. He had a huge advantage.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 4:15 pm
Posted by Rep520
Member since Mar 2018
10476 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:17 pm to
quote:

Lee was a better General when it came to tactics and strategy...by quite a bit. But Grant didn't need to be a better General to win.


I disagree with this a bit. A good General sees the shortest path to victory and takes it.

That's what Grant did. Any other strategy would have been wrong for the situation.
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71735 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:28 pm to
quote:

Lee was Grant's tactical superior.


In what way exactly?
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40042 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

Lee was a better General when it came to tactics and strategy...by quite a bit.


People say this, but I don’t believe the difference was that great.

Grant recognized early on the war would be different. The telegraph and train had made much of what was prior military doctrine obsolete. Grant had a clear vision of how he wanted to fight, and the strategic innovations of waging war year-round, which represented a major departure from typical warfare, when warfare was done as the seasons permitted. His other innovation was the sheer tempo of his operations, which mitigated the South’s defensive advantage and taxed their supply lines. He was able to implement this strategy and operations across 3 major theaters of the war, theaters where his armies were victorious.

The fact that Grant could conceive that this war would be fought differently is extremely underrated. It was visionary, in fact, to understand how the war would be fought, and then implement that understanding into operations which achieved those aims. That is strategic and operational thinking exhibited at a high level. His tactical work is underrated too, as his frontal charge at Missionary Ridge was predicated on weakening Bragg’s flanks. His Vicksburg Campaign was nothing short of brilliant as well, and gets little attention in the mainstream.

Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
40042 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:32 pm to
quote:

 Frankly I wonder why it took Grant so long.


It took him one year from being appointed general-in-chief, and he was visibly more successful than any of his predecessors.
Posted by cypresstiger
The South
Member since Aug 2008
14506 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:36 pm to
I highly recommend the very thick but highly readable bio “Grant” by Chernow. It changed my view about him, from thinking he was a drunk butcher to a thoughtful strategist with a conscience.
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71735 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:42 pm to
quote:

Frankly I wonder why it took Grant so long.


It didn't take him long at all really. The campaign began on May 4 and by mid-June Grant had Lee besieged south of the James River at Petersburg. From that point on it was just a question of time. Lee knew he was checkmated.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 4:43 pm
Posted by michael corleone
baton rouge
Member since Jun 2005
6627 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:50 pm to
Lee’s overconfidence after Chancellorsville was his undoing. The Gettysburg campaign was not well thought out and the decisions to attack the Union position on Days 2 and 3 are the two worst decisions of the war. I have been to Fredericksburg and Gettysburg. It amazed me how Lee thought he could take the Union positions on Days 2 and 3 after he destroyed the Union attack at Fredricksburg. The Conf’s Fredricksburg position was much less daunting than the Union’s Gettysburg position. Lee should have simply marched to the south side and then east of the position. He could have forced Meade to attack him. He could have also threatened DC, Phil or NY from this position (even if the threat was weak). He let his ego take over.
Posted by SpqrTiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2004
9777 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:54 pm to
I have no love for the Confederate cause, but to suggest that there are a huge number of Confederate sympathizers who do not know or refuse to acknowledge which general actually won the war is asinine.

How about writing the article telling us that the show is coming on while not insulting anyone? Too much to ask?
Posted by RollTide1987
Baltimore, MD
Member since Nov 2009
71735 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:56 pm to
quote:

Lee should have simply marched to the south side and then east of the position. He could have forced Meade to attack him. He could have also threatened DC, Phil or NY from this position (even if the threat was weak). He let his ego take over.


That's easier said than done. For one...in order for Lee to have successfully accomplished such a move, he would have had to have withdrawn from Gettysburg via the western approaches, taking his army back behind the Blue Ridge. Such a maneuver would have given Meade all the time in the world to re-deploy his army before Lee could get around him.
Posted by gaetti15
AK
Member since Apr 2013
15699 posts
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:58 pm to
Pretty sure grant killed a lady after drinking and driving in a horse drawn carriage

Maybe they will talk about that too.

ETA: he was caught speeding my bad
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 5:01 pm
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