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re: History Channel's 'Grant' Is a Timely Reminder of Which General Actually Won the Civil War
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:27 pm to Mo Jeaux
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:27 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Inb4 drunk, just sacrificed his men to overwhelm Lee, not as good of a general as Lee, etc.
The issue with Grant was his hatred towards blacks
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:35 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
so it's easy to forget that he commanded the losing side in the Civil War
Might be one of the dumbest statements I've ever read
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:39 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Robert E. Lee may have been the star pupil at West Point and currently the most-celebrated military man of his era, so it's easy to forget that he commanded the losing side in the Civil War.
I don't think it really is. I feel like you either don't know who Lee is or know he was a Confederate General.
So, unless you're confused about how the Civil War turned out, it's pretty straightforward.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:41 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Inb4 drunk
But he was.
quote:
just sacrificed his men to overwhelm Lee
Maybe, but that doesn't take away from the fact he still won. War is hell, and you do what you need to do to win.
quote:
not as good of a general as Lee,
Lee was a better General when it came to tactics and strategy...by quite a bit. But Grant didn't need to be a better General to win. He just needed to leverage the logistical advantage the Union had over the Confederacy, which he did.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:42 pm to RollTide1987
At this point, what difference does it make?
Some people did something over 150 years ago, so who cares. Just get over it and let it go, gosh!
Some people did something over 150 years ago, so who cares. Just get over it and let it go, gosh!
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:53 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Which General Actually Won the War of Northern Aggression
FIFY
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:54 pm to RollTide1987
Wasn’t the South going to lose regardless of who its top general was? I was under the impression that the North had all the industry and was only a matter of time before the South was completely shut off and out of supplies. Disclaimer here, I’m by no means well versed on the topic, just what I remember reading somewhere.
Edit: certainly don’t mean to discredit Grant, looking forward to this documentary
Edit: certainly don’t mean to discredit Grant, looking forward to this documentary
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 5/21/20 at 3:54 pm to Centinel
Well not just the logistical advantage but the follow through.
Lee should have been defeated many times but was allowed to retreat time and time again. The civil war in the East is sometimes almost like a perverse inversion of the Fabian Strategy.
It took men like Grant to put and end to that.
Lee should have been defeated many times but was allowed to retreat time and time again. The civil war in the East is sometimes almost like a perverse inversion of the Fabian Strategy.
It took men like Grant to put and end to that.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:06 pm to ZappBrannigan
Grant was a mathematician who knew how to feed the meat grinder.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:13 pm to X123F45
quote:
Lee was outmatched.
After Gettysburg Lee had no chance. Grant never got Lee at his best. Meade had already beaten a weakened Lee(no Jackson or Stuart) and all Grant had to do was finish him off. Frankly I wonder why it took Grant so long. He had a huge advantage.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:17 pm to Centinel
quote:
Lee was a better General when it came to tactics and strategy...by quite a bit. But Grant didn't need to be a better General to win.
I disagree with this a bit. A good General sees the shortest path to victory and takes it.
That's what Grant did. Any other strategy would have been wrong for the situation.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:28 pm to X123F45
quote:
Lee was Grant's tactical superior.
In what way exactly?
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:32 pm to Centinel
quote:
Lee was a better General when it came to tactics and strategy...by quite a bit.
People say this, but I don’t believe the difference was that great.
Grant recognized early on the war would be different. The telegraph and train had made much of what was prior military doctrine obsolete. Grant had a clear vision of how he wanted to fight, and the strategic innovations of waging war year-round, which represented a major departure from typical warfare, when warfare was done as the seasons permitted. His other innovation was the sheer tempo of his operations, which mitigated the South’s defensive advantage and taxed their supply lines. He was able to implement this strategy and operations across 3 major theaters of the war, theaters where his armies were victorious.
The fact that Grant could conceive that this war would be fought differently is extremely underrated. It was visionary, in fact, to understand how the war would be fought, and then implement that understanding into operations which achieved those aims. That is strategic and operational thinking exhibited at a high level. His tactical work is underrated too, as his frontal charge at Missionary Ridge was predicated on weakening Bragg’s flanks. His Vicksburg Campaign was nothing short of brilliant as well, and gets little attention in the mainstream.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:32 pm to doubleb
quote:
Frankly I wonder why it took Grant so long.
It took him one year from being appointed general-in-chief, and he was visibly more successful than any of his predecessors.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:36 pm to RollTide1987
I highly recommend the very thick but highly readable bio “Grant” by Chernow. It changed my view about him, from thinking he was a drunk butcher to a thoughtful strategist with a conscience.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:42 pm to doubleb
quote:
Frankly I wonder why it took Grant so long.
It didn't take him long at all really. The campaign began on May 4 and by mid-June Grant had Lee besieged south of the James River at Petersburg. From that point on it was just a question of time. Lee knew he was checkmated.
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 4:43 pm
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:50 pm to RollTide1987
Lee’s overconfidence after Chancellorsville was his undoing. The Gettysburg campaign was not well thought out and the decisions to attack the Union position on Days 2 and 3 are the two worst decisions of the war. I have been to Fredericksburg and Gettysburg. It amazed me how Lee thought he could take the Union positions on Days 2 and 3 after he destroyed the Union attack at Fredricksburg. The Conf’s Fredricksburg position was much less daunting than the Union’s Gettysburg position. Lee should have simply marched to the south side and then east of the position. He could have forced Meade to attack him. He could have also threatened DC, Phil or NY from this position (even if the threat was weak). He let his ego take over.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:54 pm to RollTide1987
I have no love for the Confederate cause, but to suggest that there are a huge number of Confederate sympathizers who do not know or refuse to acknowledge which general actually won the war is asinine.
How about writing the article telling us that the show is coming on while not insulting anyone? Too much to ask?
How about writing the article telling us that the show is coming on while not insulting anyone? Too much to ask?
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:56 pm to michael corleone
quote:
Lee should have simply marched to the south side and then east of the position. He could have forced Meade to attack him. He could have also threatened DC, Phil or NY from this position (even if the threat was weak). He let his ego take over.
That's easier said than done. For one...in order for Lee to have successfully accomplished such a move, he would have had to have withdrawn from Gettysburg via the western approaches, taking his army back behind the Blue Ridge. Such a maneuver would have given Meade all the time in the world to re-deploy his army before Lee could get around him.
Posted on 5/21/20 at 4:58 pm to SpqrTiger
Pretty sure grant killed a lady after drinking and driving in a horse drawn carriage
Maybe they will talk about that too.
ETA: he was caught speeding my bad
Maybe they will talk about that too.
ETA: he was caught speeding my bad
This post was edited on 5/21/20 at 5:01 pm
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