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re: From this point on all killers should use the Alec Baldwin defense
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:22 am to SlowFlowPro
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:22 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
The conversation where people sloppily switched arguments between civil liability and criminal liability and Baldwin's roles as producer and actor? Where I pointed out multiple times that people were mixing commentary among the 4 variables without clearly describing what they were talking about? That thread? Yeah I remember. That's why I'm reiterating the same arguments here, b/c they're happening again.
You also asserted your position that Alec Baldwin had more gun training than everyone in the thread combined, then went on to argue that the actors in these situations should have no role whatsoever in on-set gun safety
It’s amazing to me that the person that has the most posts on this site thinks he is the one that stays on point
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:22 am to Scruffy
quote:\
The best part about that situation involving cars is that many people have been arrested and charged when their brakes failed or a tire falls off their car and kills someone.
This depends on the state/scheme.
The most similar system to a regimented movie set would be Vermont, who requires a detailed inspection every year. Who do they charge when an inspected vehicle's brakes failed? The tech who serviced the car.
LINK
quote:
Investigators said Jalbert inspected Donald and Elizabeth Ibey's 1992 Chevrolet Corsica in May 2014, but didn’t inspect the car well enough before passing it. Elizabeth, 83, died in a car crash two months later. Her death could have been prevented, investigators said.
"When you go in and you pay the fees to have your vehicle inspected you're depending on that inspection mechanic to take the time to go through examine that vehicle and tell you 'yes that vehicle is safe to drive,'" said Glen Button, director of enforcement at the DMV.
The states where the driver may be charged are relying on the same gross negligence standard that could apply to Baldwin. This would require knowledge or a "should have known" standard, typically. The findlaw article on New Mexico's involuntary manslaughter even has a car example.
LINK
quote:
For example, if a person decided to drive a car blindfolded and ended up in a car accident where passengers were killed, the act would be perceived as reckless since it may be anticipated that death or serious injury would occur from such actions and the person would be charged with voluntary manslaughter. Another example is if the same person, knowing that his car had serious brake problems, allowed another person to drive his car. This may be perceived as a criminally negligent act and the person may be charged with involuntary manslaughter.
So with the regulatory scheme of movie sets, it's not directly applicable. Even ignoring that, the involuntary manslaughter charge requires a level of gross negligence that almost assuredly can't be applied to Baldwin (Again, because of the scheme). That criminal liability will likely fall on the armorer for creating that situation.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:22 am to ashy larry
I think it’s the hypocrisy and double standards of our entertainment Ruling Class that makes interesting. Baldwin is a cultural progressive entertainment industry standard- bearer. You can’t back out of your driveway without having to avoid him bloviating about how wonderful he and his fellow Democrats are. This includes gun control and mocking others who have shot someone. And the utter ridiculousness of people treating a negligent homicide differently because it happens on a film set. As if the act of being an actor mitigates the fact that he whacked a lady on the job. Those things are interesting because they demonstrate cultural tropes we recognize and loathe.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:23 am to Ponchy Tiger
Do we even have a good recap of the facts? Everyone is saying what should happen legally, but i havent seen anything like a detailed breakdown of what happened.
I think my biggest question is were they filming a scene at the time of the shooting or were they fricking around? Bc if they were fricking around, im not against criminal charges. But i have no idea what really happened that day.
I think my biggest question is were they filming a scene at the time of the shooting or were they fricking around? Bc if they were fricking around, im not against criminal charges. But i have no idea what really happened that day.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:23 am to Klark Kent
quote:
why sooo much empathy for Alex Baldwin from an anonymous poster on a forum board?
I have no empathy for Baldwin. I don't particularly like him as a person. I'm not letting that cloud my objective analysis of the situation like some others.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:24 am to ashy larry
I don't care if it's John Voight, Mike Rowe or Robert DeNiro, there are consequences for your actions. I'm definitely not some legal beagle but how this won't be classified as negligent homicide is beyond me. A person isn't allowed to accidentally kill another person and just say Ooops?!? Are they?
This post was edited on 10/25/21 at 7:06 am
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:24 am to OceanMan
quote:
position that Alec Baldwin had more gun training than everyone in the thread combined
The fricking takes on this site
This post was edited on 10/24/21 at 9:26 am
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:25 am to Lsupimp
quote:
And the utter ridiculousness of people treating a negligent homicide differently because it happens on a film set.
Regulatory schemes shift liability.
Again, see the article I posted above about the Vermont auto tech charged with a crime for doing a bad job.
quote:
As if the act of being an actor mitigates the fact that he whacked a lady on the job.
The standard is known (clearly he did not) or should have known (this is where you see liability shifting due to scheme come into play)
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:25 am to GeauxTigers0107
quote:
I'm definitely not some legal beagle but how this won't be classified as negligent homicide is beyond me.
You have your answer then.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:26 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
with the regulatory scheme of movie sets, it's not directly applicable. Even ignoring that, the involuntary manslaughter charge requires a level of gross negligence that almost assuredly can't be applied to Baldwin (Again, because of the scheme). That criminal liability will likely fall on the armorer for creating that situation.
You dont know what happened. Stop pretending you do. Why are you so invested in Baldwin being innocent?
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:27 am to thejudge
quote:
8 down votes?
No explanation?
No point in bothering when people like Roger with zero movie set experience are just going to spam the thread with accusations of having no experience with firearms, being a Baldwin fanboy, etc. because he can't actually argue the points being made.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:27 am to SECSolomonGrundy
quote:
Why are you so invested in Baldwin being innocent?
Because I'm part of a Satanic cult that kills children for Moloch and uses that power to rig elections via Dominion software.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:29 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Because I'm part of a Satanic cult that kills children for Moloch and uses that power to rig elections via Dominion software.
Makes as much sense as some of your other comments.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:31 am to GeauxTigers0107
quote:
there are consequences for your actions.
Honestly, nah not in Hollywood, Wall St or DC.
For the little people, you bet.
The legal/cj profession is the actual shite show progressives think CEO salary is. It is the system most beneficial to the elite. Their playground is more protected than ours.
Not that it matters, that's how it will always be.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:31 am to Tiger1242
quote:You know you can go to jail for negligence right? Most people don't think he actually tried to murder the woman. Anybody else who wasn't a rich liberal entitled actor would have been charged with negligence.
These threads are sad. I’m sure the dude is dealing with all kinds of remorse and guilt, he didn’t try and kill someone. Yes he should’ve checked that it was safe but also he was handed it by an expert he trusts and has probably done the same hundreds of time so felt safe.
Overall it’s a really sad situation for everyone especially the lady who was shot and her family, I’m not sure why some people think Baldwin deserves to be arrested? Just because you hate him?
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:33 am to Klark Kent
quote:
you wouldn’t show me this compassion if on the jury.
so you tell me, why sooo much empathy for Alex Baldwin from an anonymous poster on a forum board?
????
If this situation was exactly the same but it was you I’d feel the same way. I don’t have compassion for him in particular but for this sad situation as a whole. It’s got to be terribly upsetting to accidentally kill someone like this especially when you thought you were in a safe situation
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:33 am to Tiger1242
quote:How's that defense work out for the drunk that gets behind the wheel, and kills somebody?
I’m sure the dude is dealing with all kinds of remorse and guilt, he didn’t try and kill someone.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:34 am to Limitlesstigers
quote:if this was chris pratt instead of alec baldwin, he wouldn't be charged with anything
Anybody else who wasn't a rich liberal entitled actor would have been charged with negligence.
you know why? bc the negligence does not fall on him
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:35 am to Limitlesstigers
quote:
Anybody else who wasn't a rich liberal entitled actor would have been charged with negligence.
This scenario only makes sense for actors.
The false equivalencies you goons are trying to draw are laughable.
Posted on 10/24/21 at 9:36 am to GreatLakesTiger24
quote:
if this was chris pratt instead of alec baldwin, he wouldn't be charged with anything
you know why? bc the negligence does not fall on him
Quiet! The Stupids are too busy group thinking!
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