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re: Did Italy's lack of quality health care cause the entire world to panic?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:47 pm to thadcastle
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:47 pm to thadcastle
Italy got hit hard because they have TONS of Chinese immigrants(many from the Wuhan area) who work in the textile factories there. What happened in January? Chinese New Year. Many of the Chinese immigrants came from Wuhan back to Italy around that time & brought the Chinese flu with them & Italy got trounced. This is the what the media won't talk about out loud because they don't want to look "racist".
3
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:51 pm to Hetfield
Healthy people don't just die from this. Living in close proximity, like NYC who got hit hard too, and having a ton of old and unhealthy people is what upped their death counts. Immigrants may have caused or increased the spread, but having the exact people at highest risk of death from this is why they died.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 12:53 pm to BHS78
quote:
Please tell me about your health care experience in Italy. I know several people that have had to go to a hospital while traveling Italy. They said it looked and felt like 1940 America. Oh, and you better have a family member to take care of you while in the hospital.
I lived in Italy from 1998 until 2006 and had a lot of personal experiences with the health care system as well as my ex-wife's father being the Surgeon General of a large hospital there.
The system differs in many significant ways from the US (some better, some worse).
That can mean an even a wider range of different "ratings" and "personal experiences" than we Americans have about the US system -- which is massive.
To say though that Italy does not offer high level medical care in general --especially in the wealthy north where the Covid effects were most severe -- is absurd.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:38 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:
Imagine if Mawmaw lived in your house with you, you, your parents lived in your house with you, and you and your own wife and kids were all in close proximity.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:48 pm to DavidTheGnome
quote:
Italy has good healthcare
Italy has affordable healthcare but that doesn't necessarily make it good. I liken Italy's healthcare to Wendy's and the United States' to Ruth's Chris.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:49 pm to thadcastle
China is heavily invested in labor in Italy.
They are also heavily invested in Iran.
Makes sense, really.
They are also heavily invested in Iran.
Makes sense, really.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:52 pm to thadcastle
Belgium now the new king of COVID at the country level: 69.2 deaths/100k
New York City (motto: “The Wuhan of the West”) triples that mark. 226 deaths/100k.
New York City (motto: “The Wuhan of the West”) triples that mark. 226 deaths/100k.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:56 pm to C
quote:
Italy has the number 2 health care system in the world according to WHO.
My experience with Southern Europe and what happened there make me doubt this very much.
There's a lot of ways to measure healthcare and some of those measures are misleading.
For example, having a population who lives longer, for whatever reason, doesn't necessarily mean the country's healthcare skill is superior.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 1:56 pm to OceanMan
. Sorry I didn't engrish too good
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:04 pm to The Boat
quote:
quote:
Italy has the number 2 health care system in the world according to WHO.
The WHO doesn't know its a-hole from a hole in the ground
Yeah, it seems like more an illustration as to how meaningless these kinds of “rankings” are in the grand scheme of things than a particular indictment against Italy.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:05 pm to Teddy Ruxpin
quote:
My experience with Southern Europe and what happened there make me doubt this very much.
Keep in mind the WHO rankings are specifically crafted to rate countries with socialized medicine higher than countries with privatized medicine.
Every NGO has an agenda they are trying to push. WHO's is socialized medicine.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:06 pm to Hulkklogan
quote:
Sorry I didn't engrish too good
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:07 pm to thadcastle
That’s true, I think.
Apparently Italy struggled with a seasonal flu epidemic just two years ago.
Apparently Italy struggled with a seasonal flu epidemic just two years ago.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:14 pm to Hetfield
Italy had a deadlier strain of virus. Pick on the frickin Chinese dumb arse.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:22 pm to QJenk
quote:The countries that have generally fared better (Taiwan, SK, NZ, etc.) were ones that had a proactive data-driven approach, primarily a test, trace, and isolate system.
Meanwhile Germany is doing great. I dont get it honestly, theyre the country I want to study, not necessarily Sweden
There are also some cultural, social, and demographic issues that play a role as well that were largely outside of the healthcare system and government's control (at least before we know their impact). That being said, the succesful approaches should/have made the outcomes better regardless of those other factors.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:31 pm to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
But they were ranked top ten in the world according to the WHO and America was in the 30’s
All because Italy bent the knee to socialized medicine. I have had extensive discussions with Italian surgeons who would love to have access to the equipment/facilities we have in the United States. Their system is a sham just like about every country that has adapted socialized medicine.
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 2:42 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:34 pm to Centinel
quote:Well considering that other than the United States (and maybe UAE and Jordan are close enough), every other developed country has some sort of universal system, even if it's primarily private (Isreal; Switzerland) then I don't think that they have to actually prioritize "socialized medicine."
Keep in mind the WHO rankings are specifically crafted to rate countries with socialized medicine higher than countries with privatized medicine
The countries that fall into our category are: Congo, Uganda, India, Yemen, Bangladash, Nigeria, etc. it's not like WHO actually has to prioritize anything to rank those systems well down the list.
In fact, as someone who thinks Medicare-for-all was a terrible plan, and thinks our system does allow for some advantages the rest of the world is lacking, it is kind of disturbing to see who is and isn't in our category's system.
That said, there are plenty of socialized systems that ranking well below us as well. So it can't just be the system preference.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:38 pm to Hetfield
quote:
Italy got hit hard because they have TONS of Chinese immigrants(many from the Wuhan area) who work in the textile factories there. What happened in January? Chinese New Year. Many of the Chinese immigrants came from Wuhan back to Italy around that time & brought the Chinese flu with them & Italy got trounced. This is the what the media won't talk about out loud because they don't want to look "racist".
This coupled with a horrid health system and progressive politicians calling “to hug Chinese immigrants” after big bad Orange Man acted racist by implementing a travel ban!
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:43 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
every other developed country has some sort of universal system
What do you think Medicare and Medicaid is?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:44 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:You know. It just doesn't seem like it neatly falls into our system is either great or terrible and the rest of the developed world's systems are the opposite of whatever our's is.
All because Italy bent the knee to socialized medicine. I have had extensive discussions with Italian surgeons who would to have access to the equipment/facilities we have in the United States. Their system is a sham just like about every country that has adapted socialized medicine.
In other words, it does appear that our system as some unique advantages over everybody else, yet at the same time we're severely lacking in other areas compared to everybody else.
But my biggest issue with this argument is that we confidently exclaim that their system suck, yet they like their systems. Similarly, they tell us that our system sucks, yet we seem to like it as well. So maybe there is some good in both. Personally, I think our biggest problem is on the cost side, not the healthcare itself.
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