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re: Did Italy's lack of quality health care cause the entire world to panic?
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:55 pm to Centinel
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:55 pm to Centinel
quote:Publically supported systems for SPECIFIC people. That's NOT UNIVERSAL.
What do you think Medicare and Medicaid is?
I don't know what the idea system is, but I like the idea of having more of a hybrid since countries that are as far from "socialism" as we are have something more universal than our's (Japan, South Korea, Germany, Isreal, etc.).
I think we've done a disservice to our own options, by incorrectly representing every other type of system as "socialism," when many don't fit the definition of socialism and it would be almost as valid to call our own system socialism by that definition.
0
Posted on 5/5/20 at 2:59 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
But my biggest issue with this argument is that we confidently exclaim that their system suck, yet they like their systems. Similarly, they tell us that our system sucks, yet we seem to like it as well. So maybe there is some good in both. Personally, I think our biggest problem is on the cost side, not the healthcare itself.
If all you know is a black and white boob tube would you believe that a 4K OLED TV is head and shoulders better? You do realize that major medical facilities (like UAB) have leaf jets that do nothing but fly across the world to pick up patients and bring them here? Why would so many people be willing to fly here for treatment?
In regards to our system, garbage in garbage out. Most of our issues revolve around a lack of preventative medicine and unhealthy patients (primarily because so many additives such as high fructose corn syrup). So if the average citizen would eat better, exercise and do regular check ups we would likely have better outcomes.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:14 pm to buckeye_vol
I'm sure the main difference in ranking between the USA and Italy is the ratio of preventative care / maintaining care for the total population. I would guess that figures significantly in the rankings.
USA's "rank" is lowered a great deal by the large percentage of uninsured Americans. That results in numbers of "receiving little to no preventative care" on par with many "third world" countries.
It's also why having more ICU units in Mississippi than Sardegna doesn't necessarily mean a better ranking since Sardegna probably ranks higher than any US state in the percentage of the population that have regular doctor visits for preventative care and perhaps, therefore, needs less ICUs (except, significantly, right now, during a virus pandemic.)
USA's "rank" is lowered a great deal by the large percentage of uninsured Americans. That results in numbers of "receiving little to no preventative care" on par with many "third world" countries.
It's also why having more ICU units in Mississippi than Sardegna doesn't necessarily mean a better ranking since Sardegna probably ranks higher than any US state in the percentage of the population that have regular doctor visits for preventative care and perhaps, therefore, needs less ICUs (except, significantly, right now, during a virus pandemic.)
This post was edited on 5/5/20 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:32 pm to BRIllini07
quote:
Belgium now the new king of COVID at the country level: 69.2 deaths/100k
Belgium for whatever reason decided to count every single death as a covid19 case even for cases where the deceased had no signs. If there is/was a possibility they were around someone with it, they get counted.
My niece works as a pathologist in one of the major hospitals in Brussels and told me weeks ago every death certificate in her hospital has been stamped covid19.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:36 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:But this can work both ways. Maybe we're the one's with a B&W tube, and/or maybe we both have it and we're just paying a lot more for it.
If all you know is a black and white boob tube would you believe that a 4K OLED TV is head and shoulders better?
quote:I explicitly said that our system has advantages. But let's not pretend that this is somehow representative of the general healthcare needs and services.
You do realize that major medical facilities (like UAB) have leaf jets that do nothing but fly across the world to pick up patients and bring them here?
quote:Because either the treament or the physician is better.
Why would so many people be willing to fly here for treatment?
quote:And this is my biggest issue with your argument. The positives are attributed to the system but the negatives are attributed to the individuals. Isn't is possible that the positive are also a function of the individuals, not just the system, and the negatives are also a functiong of the system, not just the individuals?
Most of our issues revolve around a lack of preventative medicine and unhealthy patients (primarily because so many additives such as high fructose corn syrup). So if the average citizen would eat better, exercise and do regular check ups we would likely have better outcomes.
So it seems to me that if we have some things we do better than everybody else but some things we do worse, then the best idea is to maintain the things we do well and fix the things we do poorly. And maybe the things we do poorly is better handled by a different system (e.g., basic prevantive services) but things we do well (e.g., specialized services, innovation, etc.) are better handled by our current system and could maybe be even better if it was focused solely on what it does well.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:40 pm to thadcastle
quote:
You can have the best healthcare in the world, but if you have a higher than average population of the exact people most susceptible to a deadly virus, there's only so much you can do.
This and the fact that the vast majority of all cases in Italy were concentrated in areas of Emelia-Romagna and Lombardy (not in those entire regions). It would be on par with let's say, 90% of all Covid-19 cases in the USA being concentrated in the San Francisco Bay Area. It would easily overrun the 28 major hospitals that serve the roughly 8.5 million people that live in the Bay Area.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 3:43 pm to wm72
quote:
As of today the UK has passed Italy in total Covid deaths (all while the UK has much more conservative counting methods) and UK cases are rising at over a 3:1 ratio to Italy.
Why is that the case?
Cankles
Posted on 5/5/20 at 4:02 pm to wm72
quote:
As of today the UK has passed Italy in total Covid deaths (all while the UK has much more conservative counting methods) and UK cases are rising at over a 3:1 ratio to Italy. Why is that the case?
What does Brixton, the Bronx and the Lower Ninth Ward have in common racially?
Not making this about race really but the areas with exceedingly high rates are all locales with high density of people who have been found to be at higher risk due to a prevalence of underlying health issues.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 5:03 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
But this can work both ways. Maybe we're the one's with a B&W tube, and/or maybe we both have it and we're just paying a lot more for it.
As I stated I have had numerous very long discussions about this exact topic with Italian Surgeons (1 of which is not only a nuerosurgeon but the chief of surgery for one of, if not the largest hospital in the Lombardi area). We are not the B&W in this situation. He has no say in what equipment they can buy. We are light tears ahead of them in technology.
quote:
And this is my biggest issue with your argument. The positives are attributed to the system but the negatives are attributed to the individuals. Isn't is possible that the positive are also a function of the individuals, not just the system, and the negatives are also a functiong of the system, not just the individuals?
The system is great if it is used correctly. That means using a primary care physician and not an ER. That means the system is not responsible for poorly educated individuals using their EBT cards to pay for soda, beer and food loaded with crap when they have diabetes.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 5:52 pm to ABearsFanNMS
quote:
The system is great if it is used correctly. That means using a primary care physician and not an ER. That means the system is not responsible for poorly educated individuals using their EBT cards to pay for soda, beer and food loaded with crap when they have diabetes.
You could argue that one of the primary factors that would make a health care system better would be its ability to adjust to and meet the needs of all of its citizens.
The US system does a lot at the higher end that you will not find in many other countries -- why many wealthy come here for advanced procedures -- but some of that is due to those countries diverting resources to preventative care / health education etc so they don't have the situation you describe in the US in such high numbers.
Posted on 5/5/20 at 6:43 pm to TH03
quote:
Or if you sell your soul to the Chinese roads and building program and therefore you import this virus
That isn't why they got hit so hard.
Completely coincidental
Posted on 5/5/20 at 6:52 pm to thadcastle
China grossly underreported their problems. Everyone was thinking , “ no big deal”. Then the shite hit the fan in Italy and everyone lost their minds.
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